New Envoy Information
10-28-2016, 08:29 AM
#5531
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2015
Posts: 667
Originally Posted by DilsonWic
Yes! PBS for a a duty rig of 5 hours a day. I'm all in! Make my 30 hour OKC overnight more envoyable.
Last edited by Smutter; 10-28-2016 at 08:46 AM.
10-28-2016, 09:40 AM
#5533
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2014
Position: Feito no Brasil, CA
Posts: 833
New Envoy Information
I like Sam, but I think he is no longer effective. The union has been at its least effective I have ever seen. Grieve it and fly it. As for PBS, it's only as good as what the company puts in it.
Currently, trips and schedules suck. Most of us agree with that. Pairings are wasteful, low time, often uncommutable, and have few days off between.
The benefits the pilots have with these current schedules are: we know what we're getting. We can bid transition, training, and vacation conflicts. The training and vacation conflicts are essentially frozen, so we parlay that in to some extra time off or extra pay. Transition conflicts can mean extra pay. We have these things even on crappy lines.
The company doesn't like paying extra. The company doesn't like paying for staffing to cover the conflicts. They don't like the inability to control our schedules. They don't want to cover a skillfully bid line that nets a pilot 2 + weeks off over a holiday. They can manipulate numbers of days off as they see fit (within contract).
So what exactly would the benefit be to the pilot group to get PBS? We lose all of the above benefits. Some senior folks will get the days off they want. The company probably won't improve the trips, so the pairings will still stink.
So in reality, we lose more than a few gain with PBS. Crappy trips in = crappy schedules out and no conflicts, no DTS, loss of pay and days off.
Lose-lose.
Currently, trips and schedules suck. Most of us agree with that. Pairings are wasteful, low time, often uncommutable, and have few days off between.
The benefits the pilots have with these current schedules are: we know what we're getting. We can bid transition, training, and vacation conflicts. The training and vacation conflicts are essentially frozen, so we parlay that in to some extra time off or extra pay. Transition conflicts can mean extra pay. We have these things even on crappy lines.
The company doesn't like paying extra. The company doesn't like paying for staffing to cover the conflicts. They don't like the inability to control our schedules. They don't want to cover a skillfully bid line that nets a pilot 2 + weeks off over a holiday. They can manipulate numbers of days off as they see fit (within contract).
So what exactly would the benefit be to the pilot group to get PBS? We lose all of the above benefits. Some senior folks will get the days off they want. The company probably won't improve the trips, so the pairings will still stink.
So in reality, we lose more than a few gain with PBS. Crappy trips in = crappy schedules out and no conflicts, no DTS, loss of pay and days off.
Lose-lose.
10-28-2016, 10:44 AM
#5535
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Posts: 854
Originally Posted by highflyer1980
Any word on reserve arbitration? Seems that topic has gone cold.
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10-28-2016, 12:04 PM
#5537
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Posts: 394
Originally Posted by cbrittle
Knowing what you know now, where would you go?
It's tough to say where I would go if I was starting out right now. But I'll tell you about how I ended up staying here and hope my hind sight helps in some way.
I hired on at Envoy back in 2013, the first and only interview I did at the regionals. Skywest called when I was in training, and it turns out it would have been a good move to go there. They've continued to hire since then, so I'd have lived in base as an FO, and upgraded by now. It was a tough call to stay at Envoy (American Eagle, back in those days) when Skywest called, but I was in the middle of training and decided to stay put. I didn't think leaving after such a short time would look good on my resume.
Mesa was another option since I live in one of their bases, but after asking a few Mesa pilots about how they liked working there, I decided it was not worth the lateral move. Again, I missed another opportunity at a faster upgrade, but overall I think I am happier at Envoy than I would have been at Mesa
Compass was another option that came up in 2014. I know a handful of guys around my seniority at Envoy that went there and caught the quick upgrade. By the time I'd considered it, we had a flow at Envoy, and AA being my top choice, I decided to wait it out. Like Skywest, Compass probably would have been better for me in the short term. Longer term, there's just no way to know if it would have gotten me to a major (or specifically AA) any faster or slower.
I'm a pretty risk averse guy. I always felt a lateral move was a bit on the risky side. It's working out of a lot of guys. But I'm sure some people regret it, too.
The moral of the story is you won't know what the right move was until years later. Things change fast at the airlines, and doubly fast at the regionals. You just have to gather as much information as possible, consider what's important to you, make your decision, and have a good attitude regardless of if it was the best choice or not. At the end of the day, we all have a pretty great career ahead. If you can't see that, you probably won't be happy anywhere.
I'm still not sure if I'd have had a better career at Skywest, Compass, or Envoy. Right now I'm projecting flow in 2020 to AA, my top choice. If DAL, UAL, or a couple of others call first, I'll go. Would I have gotten to my career airline faster at another regional? Will my career airline be around until I retire? Ask me in about 30 years.
If any new guys want a sounding board for deciding where to go, shoot me a PM. I'd be happy to help.
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10-28-2016, 01:39 PM
#5538
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 439
Originally Posted by Shiner
It's tough to say where I would go if I was starting out right now. But I'll tell you about how I ended up staying here and hope my hind sight helps in some way.
I hired on at Envoy back in 2013, the first and only interview I did at the regionals. Skywest called when I was in training, and it turns out it would have been a good move to go there. They've continued to hire since then, so I'd have lived in base as an FO, and upgraded by now. It was a tough call to stay at Envoy (American Eagle, back in those days) when Skywest called, but I was in the middle of training and decided to stay put. I didn't think leaving after such a short time would look good on my resume.
Mesa was another option since I live in one of their bases, but after asking a few Mesa pilots about how they liked working there, I decided it was not worth the lateral move. Again, I missed another opportunity at a faster upgrade, but overall I think I am happier at Envoy than I would have been at Mesa
Compass was another option that came up in 2014. I know a handful of guys around my seniority at Envoy that went there and caught the quick upgrade. By the time I'd considered it, we had a flow at Envoy, and AA being my top choice, I decided to wait it out. Like Skywest, Compass probably would have been better for me in the short term. Longer term, there's just no way to know if it would have gotten me to a major (or specifically AA) any faster or slower.
I'm a pretty risk averse guy. I always felt a lateral move was a bit on the risky side. It's working out of a lot of guys. But I'm sure some people regret it, too.
The moral of the story is you won't know what the right move was until years later. Things change fast at the airlines, and doubly fast at the regionals. You just have to gather as much information as possible, consider what's important to you, make your decision, and have a good attitude regardless of if it was the best choice or not. At the end of the day, we all have a pretty great career ahead. If you can't see that, you probably won't be happy anywhere.
I'm still not sure if I'd have had a better career at Skywest, Compass, or Envoy. Right now I'm projecting flow in 2020 to AA, my top choice. If DAL, UAL, or a couple of others call first, I'll go. Would I have gotten to my career airline faster at another regional? Will my career airline be around until I retire? Ask me in about 30 years.
If any new guys want a sounding board for deciding where to go, shoot me a PM. I'd be happy to help.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I hired on at Envoy back in 2013, the first and only interview I did at the regionals. Skywest called when I was in training, and it turns out it would have been a good move to go there. They've continued to hire since then, so I'd have lived in base as an FO, and upgraded by now. It was a tough call to stay at Envoy (American Eagle, back in those days) when Skywest called, but I was in the middle of training and decided to stay put. I didn't think leaving after such a short time would look good on my resume.
Mesa was another option since I live in one of their bases, but after asking a few Mesa pilots about how they liked working there, I decided it was not worth the lateral move. Again, I missed another opportunity at a faster upgrade, but overall I think I am happier at Envoy than I would have been at Mesa
Compass was another option that came up in 2014. I know a handful of guys around my seniority at Envoy that went there and caught the quick upgrade. By the time I'd considered it, we had a flow at Envoy, and AA being my top choice, I decided to wait it out. Like Skywest, Compass probably would have been better for me in the short term. Longer term, there's just no way to know if it would have gotten me to a major (or specifically AA) any faster or slower.
I'm a pretty risk averse guy. I always felt a lateral move was a bit on the risky side. It's working out of a lot of guys. But I'm sure some people regret it, too.
The moral of the story is you won't know what the right move was until years later. Things change fast at the airlines, and doubly fast at the regionals. You just have to gather as much information as possible, consider what's important to you, make your decision, and have a good attitude regardless of if it was the best choice or not. At the end of the day, we all have a pretty great career ahead. If you can't see that, you probably won't be happy anywhere.
I'm still not sure if I'd have had a better career at Skywest, Compass, or Envoy. Right now I'm projecting flow in 2020 to AA, my top choice. If DAL, UAL, or a couple of others call first, I'll go. Would I have gotten to my career airline faster at another regional? Will my career airline be around until I retire? Ask me in about 30 years.
If any new guys want a sounding board for deciding where to go, shoot me a PM. I'd be happy to help.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
10-28-2016, 06:23 PM
#5539
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2015
Position: CA
Posts: 83
So, this is a little off topic, but I would value (most) of the opinions on the matter.
I was given the pre-employment offer one week ago today. Got a call back today saying I didn't have enough time in the last 12 months. I asked how much more I would need, he said he'd ask and get back to me.
In as few words as possible, other than 2.6 hours flown with a CFI locally two weeks ago (got signed off on), I have zero flight time in ~3 years. I have ~500 hours of 135 time in a Caravan back in 2008. Built a lot of 172 time between 2009 and 2013.
I asked him about alternatives to paying for flight time since it wouldn't be relevant at all to 121 flying (other than getting my IPC signed off on, which I will still do regardless). I was told that the most relevant thing to show would be completion of a 121 ground school course. Other than that, good luck finding a 135 operation with no contract to build ~100 hours and bail.
So do I go to a 121 with no contract and complete ground school and jump ship (and feel like a huge d0uche the whole way through), or do I seek alternatives? My first reaction is to not burn a bridge, EVER. But then again, we all know an airline or two that may or may not deserve it. ><
Thoughts?
I was given the pre-employment offer one week ago today. Got a call back today saying I didn't have enough time in the last 12 months. I asked how much more I would need, he said he'd ask and get back to me.
In as few words as possible, other than 2.6 hours flown with a CFI locally two weeks ago (got signed off on), I have zero flight time in ~3 years. I have ~500 hours of 135 time in a Caravan back in 2008. Built a lot of 172 time between 2009 and 2013.
I asked him about alternatives to paying for flight time since it wouldn't be relevant at all to 121 flying (other than getting my IPC signed off on, which I will still do regardless). I was told that the most relevant thing to show would be completion of a 121 ground school course. Other than that, good luck finding a 135 operation with no contract to build ~100 hours and bail.
So do I go to a 121 with no contract and complete ground school and jump ship (and feel like a huge d0uche the whole way through), or do I seek alternatives? My first reaction is to not burn a bridge, EVER. But then again, we all know an airline or two that may or may not deserve it. ><
Thoughts?
10-28-2016, 08:14 PM
#5540
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 79
Originally Posted by cbrpilot
So, this is a little off topic, but I would value (most) of the opinions on the matter.
I was given the pre-employment offer one week ago today. Got a call back today saying I didn't have enough time in the last 12 months. I asked how much more I would need, he said he'd ask and get back to me.
In as few words as possible, other than 2.6 hours flown with a CFI locally two weeks ago (got signed off on), I have zero flight time in ~3 years. I have ~500 hours of 135 time in a Caravan back in 2008. Built a lot of 172 time between 2009 and 2013.
I asked him about alternatives to paying for flight time since it wouldn't be relevant at all to 121 flying (other than getting my IPC signed off on, which I will still do regardless). I was told that the most relevant thing to show would be completion of a 121 ground school course. Other than that, good luck finding a 135 operation with no contract to build ~100 hours and bail.
So do I go to a 121 with no contract and complete ground school and jump ship (and feel like a huge d0uche the whole way through), or do I seek alternatives? My first reaction is to not burn a bridge, EVER. But then again, we all know an airline or two that may or may not deserve it. ><
Thoughts?
I was given the pre-employment offer one week ago today. Got a call back today saying I didn't have enough time in the last 12 months. I asked how much more I would need, he said he'd ask and get back to me.
In as few words as possible, other than 2.6 hours flown with a CFI locally two weeks ago (got signed off on), I have zero flight time in ~3 years. I have ~500 hours of 135 time in a Caravan back in 2008. Built a lot of 172 time between 2009 and 2013.
I asked him about alternatives to paying for flight time since it wouldn't be relevant at all to 121 flying (other than getting my IPC signed off on, which I will still do regardless). I was told that the most relevant thing to show would be completion of a 121 ground school course. Other than that, good luck finding a 135 operation with no contract to build ~100 hours and bail.
So do I go to a 121 with no contract and complete ground school and jump ship (and feel like a huge d0uche the whole way through), or do I seek alternatives? My first reaction is to not burn a bridge, EVER. But then again, we all know an airline or two that may or may not deserve it. ><
Thoughts?
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