Envoy
01-30-2017, 04:56 AM
#562
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Posts: 91
Some very interesting informations and opinions that have been posted to another forum below about the flow. Should be read and discussed.
There are absolutely no guarantees in life and the flow to AA falls into that category. Any aspect of any contract has pathways for delay, avoidance or outright nullification. The past repeatedly proves that. An award by an arbitrator is more difficult (and expensive) to circumvent, whereas a simple contractual provision is much easier (your LTFO situation being a prime example). I think as long as Envoy can flow pilots, they will, but at minimum rate so as not to squander what they know to be a shaky and unpredictable resource, especially looking forward into the future. If however, they run into a roadblock in their ability to fulfill their allotted mission or worse yet, Envoy's very existence is threatened, a more aggressive stance on the flow would be taken in the negative. Envoy will not flow itself out of existence. Should more dire unforeseen circumstances occur (or should that situation simply be claimed), Force Majeure would be the Alamo for them regarding the flow to AA even though the byproduct of that would just mean higher outside attrition, although that still would likely be less then what a flow would produce.
At some point in the relatively near future, I think that very situation will be at hand as the Envoy new-hire cow barn is successful only because their pail is being tilted to get milk from other nearby udders as well as the street-hire cow they are sitting under. IMO, the nearby cows being siphoned will soon flop over and Elsie's lone udder directly above will be insufficient for them no matter how fast and hard her teats are squeezed. That's when ALPA will be given two options, being bad and worse and of course, they will deal and take the best of the two unpleasant options. What that is, remains to be seen. Some want to convince others the Envoy cow barn is filled with bottomless (actually topless) udders and will remain awash with milk in perpetuity, but that is nothing more then desperately wishful thinking.
There are absolutely no guarantees in life and the flow to AA falls into that category. Any aspect of any contract has pathways for delay, avoidance or outright nullification. The past repeatedly proves that. An award by an arbitrator is more difficult (and expensive) to circumvent, whereas a simple contractual provision is much easier (your LTFO situation being a prime example). I think as long as Envoy can flow pilots, they will, but at minimum rate so as not to squander what they know to be a shaky and unpredictable resource, especially looking forward into the future. If however, they run into a roadblock in their ability to fulfill their allotted mission or worse yet, Envoy's very existence is threatened, a more aggressive stance on the flow would be taken in the negative. Envoy will not flow itself out of existence. Should more dire unforeseen circumstances occur (or should that situation simply be claimed), Force Majeure would be the Alamo for them regarding the flow to AA even though the byproduct of that would just mean higher outside attrition, although that still would likely be less then what a flow would produce.
At some point in the relatively near future, I think that very situation will be at hand as the Envoy new-hire cow barn is successful only because their pail is being tilted to get milk from other nearby udders as well as the street-hire cow they are sitting under. IMO, the nearby cows being siphoned will soon flop over and Elsie's lone udder directly above will be insufficient for them no matter how fast and hard her teats are squeezed. That's when ALPA will be given two options, being bad and worse and of course, they will deal and take the best of the two unpleasant options. What that is, remains to be seen. Some want to convince others the Envoy cow barn is filled with bottomless (actually topless) udders and will remain awash with milk in perpetuity, but that is nothing more then desperately wishful thinking.
01-30-2017, 05:40 AM
#564
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2016
Posts: 290
Originally Posted by rondonq1
Some very interesting informations and opinions that have been posted to another forum below about the flow. Should be read and discussed.
There are absolutely no guarantees in life and the flow to AA falls into that category. Any aspect of any contract has pathways for delay, avoidance or outright nullification. The past repeatedly proves that. An award by an arbitrator is more difficult (and expensive) to circumvent, whereas a simple contractual provision is much easier (your LTFO situation being a prime example). I think as long as Envoy can flow pilots, they will, but at minimum rate so as not to squander what they know to be a shaky and unpredictable resource, especially looking forward into the future. If however, they run into a roadblock in their ability to fulfill their allotted mission or worse yet, Envoy's very existence is threatened, a more aggressive stance on the flow would be taken in the negative. Envoy will not flow itself out of existence. Should more dire unforeseen circumstances occur (or should that situation simply be claimed), Force Majeure would be the Alamo for them regarding the flow to AA even though the byproduct of that would just mean higher outside attrition, although that still would likely be less then what a flow would produce.
At some point in the relatively near future, I think that very situation will be at hand as the Envoy new-hire cow barn is successful only because their pail is being tilted to get milk from other nearby udders as well as the street-hire cow they are sitting under. IMO, the nearby cows being siphoned will soon flop over and Elsie's lone udder directly above will be insufficient for them no matter how fast and hard her teats are squeezed. That's when ALPA will be given two options, being bad and worse and of course, they will deal and take the best of the two unpleasant options. What that is, remains to be seen. Some want to convince others the Envoy cow barn is filled with bottomless (actually topless) udders and will remain awash with milk in perpetuity, but that is nothing more then desperately wishful thinking.
There are absolutely no guarantees in life and the flow to AA falls into that category. Any aspect of any contract has pathways for delay, avoidance or outright nullification. The past repeatedly proves that. An award by an arbitrator is more difficult (and expensive) to circumvent, whereas a simple contractual provision is much easier (your LTFO situation being a prime example). I think as long as Envoy can flow pilots, they will, but at minimum rate so as not to squander what they know to be a shaky and unpredictable resource, especially looking forward into the future. If however, they run into a roadblock in their ability to fulfill their allotted mission or worse yet, Envoy's very existence is threatened, a more aggressive stance on the flow would be taken in the negative. Envoy will not flow itself out of existence. Should more dire unforeseen circumstances occur (or should that situation simply be claimed), Force Majeure would be the Alamo for them regarding the flow to AA even though the byproduct of that would just mean higher outside attrition, although that still would likely be less then what a flow would produce.
At some point in the relatively near future, I think that very situation will be at hand as the Envoy new-hire cow barn is successful only because their pail is being tilted to get milk from other nearby udders as well as the street-hire cow they are sitting under. IMO, the nearby cows being siphoned will soon flop over and Elsie's lone udder directly above will be insufficient for them no matter how fast and hard her teats are squeezed. That's when ALPA will be given two options, being bad and worse and of course, they will deal and take the best of the two unpleasant options. What that is, remains to be seen. Some want to convince others the Envoy cow barn is filled with bottomless (actually topless) udders and will remain awash with milk in perpetuity, but that is nothing more then desperately wishful thinking.
Keep the conversation flowing. You guys are doing great.
01-30-2017, 05:54 AM
#565
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2016
Position: E175
Posts: 686
Originally Posted by cr700
All of you guys here that have been actively seeking information and posting over the past few weeks, please, ignore this guy. He's a known axe grinder and makes up lies and constantly posts untruths about Envoy.
Keep the conversation flowing. You guys are doing great.
Keep the conversation flowing. You guys are doing great.
God Bless us all.
01-30-2017, 06:03 AM
#567
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2016
Posts: 1,609
Originally Posted by cr700
All of you guys here that have been actively seeking information and posting over the past few weeks, please, ignore this guy. He's a known axe grinder and makes up lies and constantly posts untruths about Envoy.
Keep the conversation flowing. You guys are doing great.
Keep the conversation flowing. You guys are doing great.
And to his credit he did preface his statement with "I think...." when he stopped using facts and started using Force Majuers and something about a cow.
But I agree let's move on this topic has been thoroughly discussed.
01-30-2017, 06:17 AM
#568
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Posts: 854
Originally Posted by cr700
All of you guys here that have been actively seeking information and posting over the past few weeks, please, ignore this guy. He's a known axe grinder and makes up lies and constantly posts untruths about Envoy.
Keep the conversation flowing. You guys are doing great.
Keep the conversation flowing. You guys are doing great.
01-30-2017, 07:16 AM
#570
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 122
Originally Posted by E175 Driver
Easy info from anyone in the Union. They are afraid to make it public since rocking the boat isn't in their favor.
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