Man another armchair negotiator. How many do you guys have? Your guys cant cut langugage, you have to ask our guys for help and then you try to say your language is boiler plate. I didn't see the language that protects you from having bk airline rates used to calculate a new pay rate.

 

That's not true. They'll b***h about the local hell raisers bothering them for a few hours, hear some committee reports from committee chairmen who also had a crappy 4 day they needed to drop, have a good long lunch at an establishment on Virginia Avenue, consider a meaningless, but strongly worded resolution that "shows support" for something, then adjourn and a steak dinner and drinks. They may even repeat this for a couple more days. Very busy week.

 

There you go again. I'm glad you're such an authority on EVERYTHING!

In legal circles, "boilerplate language" refers to generic legalese which is thrown into every contract, usually as a band-aid or disclaimer to satisfy the lawyers. Here's an example from our contract:

Your arbitration for new equipment clause is not boilerplate that was thrown in. It is a poorly negotiated and poorly worded piece of trash that is in every way legally binding, and in fact, just totally screwed all of us. As Bozo said, that's because you guys think you're the best and brightest, yet you can't even write good language. You just have a bunch of folks like yourself who think you have all the answers and argue a bad position because you have to "be right".

 

It's just the truth. ALPA national "learns" from prior contracts and on the next one their attorney has the new language put in on the next contract. It's simple pattern bargaining. I do t know why you don't understand that your contract was written after ours and therefore has some boiler plate language that ours doesn't.

But again, that was beside the point. The point being that tony was lamenting the fact that we have arbitration language for new aircraft on our contract, NOT that it didn't exclude bankrupt or non union regionals. I mentioned to him that that was boiler plate language. Obviously he went and looked it up in your contract and low and behold, there is arbitration language for new aircraft in your contract as well. So now he had to change his tune and lament the exclusions instead.

And here you are riding his coat tail on this point that wasn't even being made by him initially.

See my reply to the bozo above.

That was not your argument before. Now you change your tune when you find out you have arbitration clause in your contract as well.

 

You're splitting hairs here because you just have to "be right". And what matters isn't whether it's "boilerplate" or not, what matters is that it's poorly written and has now screwed us!

And I find it laughable that the "clown" you're lecturing has more time in negotiations, arbitrations, and contract enforcement than your entire MEC added together. Face it junior, you're out of your league.

 

This coming from the guy that still insit that Acey is one syllable.

Anyway, it was you who was only complaining that we had boiler plate language that required arbitration for new aircraft. Never did you mention anything about complaining that that language didnt exclude bankrupt airlines until you found the same arbitration clause in your own contract.

The only point I was trying to make to bozo is that that language is the same language negotiated by ALPA attorneys into new contracts. As ALPA "learns" of better language, they negotiate that new language in new contracts. It's pattern bargaining and that is what I meant by boiler plate language. If you don't like my choice of words in my explanation, fine. But arguing semantics distracts from the point itself.

Like I said earlier, we wouldn't be in this predicament if your MEC hadn't given their flight line or no merger ultimatum.

 

So i was trying to gather some info from guys that have recently interviewed. I would appreciate a pm if you dont mind answering a few questions

 

You guys do realize that the new pay rates are seniority based right? Not based on the equipment you fly. Yes, there will be pilots flying the 70 seat airplane for 50 seat rates.

 

I'll just quote this since everything else you said after this punk a.. cheap shot is meaningless.

For the last time, the 1 syllable version is "Ace". Leaving off the Y. You guys really are that stupid aren't you? Go away junior.

 

When you have people / pilots such as you do that do not understand how to write language you are correct. You allow National to lead you. Blind leading the blind.

All you have to do is look at the term sheet put out by your group and there is such an obliteration of effective language that will keep your contract compliance team busy until you're 6 feet under.