What's the Latest at ASA/Expressjet?
07-11-2012 | 02:41 PM
#441
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 328
Likes: 0
From: CRJ CA
That is the lamest, sorriest, saddest line of total bull SH!t I've ever heard! What an entitled little brat! So, let me get this straight.....you'll do the simplest little thing your company requires if they pay you more? You did know the wages when you took the job, right? But yet you gladly applied and showed up for class. Now you want more or your not putting out what you agreed to! Sad.....
07-11-2012 | 03:13 PM
#442
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,534
Likes: 1
From: A320 CA
That is the lamest, sorriest, saddest line of total bull SH!t I've ever heard! What an entitled little brat! So, let me get this straight.....you'll do the simplest little thing your company requires if they pay you more? You did know the wages when you took the job, right? But yet you gladly applied and showed up for class. Now you want more or your not putting out what you agreed to! Sad.....
OR, like the big boys we are, we could (and do under our current CBA) simply go straight to our gate and operate the flight on time, without burning a Commute Clause event because you had to needlessly go to a Crew Room computer (In the case of our ORD crew room, .9 miles from our primary gates).
This IS a concession and we should be compensated for it. Your little straw man argument still ignores the significant change in quality of life under our current CBA. We don't have a problem with pilots showing up for work...if we were anything like our FA group then you would have a point. Why are we changing status quo to solve a problem that doesn't exist? We are challenging the very premise that it is a "simple little thing." It is not, and somehow the company managed to operate without it. Frankly they shouldn't be doing it at other airlines either, it's absurd. I've seen grown men with silver hair working for legacy carriers, racing through the terminal like a teenager just to get to some silly check-in, while running past the gate they will eventually leave from. You either get the flight out on time or you don't. If you don't show up and never call scheduling to let them know, you get disciplined/fired. I don't know why that's such a radical concept; one of the few benefits left in this job is the ability to operate autonomously from management if you're getting the job done.
Last edited by blastoff; 07-11-2012 at 03:36 PM.
07-11-2012 | 04:30 PM
#443
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 929
Likes: 0
From: e190
We fly out of multiple terminals in every single one of our hubs, our mainline "partners" won't allow us to use their wx rooms and our crew rooms are scattered all over the place. Checking in isn't a realistic option. We have operated just fine without checking in for 7 yrs after a trial program was a complete failure.
07-11-2012 | 05:56 PM
#444
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,412
Likes: 12
From: A320
Further more, why do you have to check in at some computer when you start a trip but they allow you to just go to your gate while you are in the middle of the trip. They tell you to be there 45 minutes early and we are. Just makes no sense really. Just do away with the whole computer check in thing and treat people like grown ups. If you can't be trusted to be there an hour before your trip starts then why hire a person?
07-11-2012 | 06:11 PM
#445
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 328
Likes: 0
From: CRJ CA
Why? You plan to get to work on time, your commute blocks in 30 minutes late waiting for a gate and now you have to go to the crew room and check in 5 minutes late and burn one of your 3 Commute Clause excusals.
OR, like the big boys we are, we could (and do under our current CBA) simply go straight to our gate and operate the flight on time, without burning a Commute Clause event because you had to needlessly go to a Crew Room computer (In the case of our ORD crew room, .9 miles from our primary gates).
This IS a concession and we should be compensated for it. Your little straw man argument still ignores the significant change in quality of life under our current CBA. We don't have a problem with pilots showing up for work...if we were anything like our FA group then you would have a point. Why are we changing status quo to solve a problem that doesn't exist? We are challenging the very premise that it is a "simple little thing." It is not, and somehow the company managed to operate without it. Frankly they shouldn't be doing it at other airlines either, it's absurd. I've seen grown men with silver hair working for legacy carriers, racing through the terminal like a teenager just to get to some silly check-in, while running past the gate they will eventually leave from. You either get the flight out on time or you don't. If you don't show up and never call scheduling to let them know, you get disciplined/fired. I don't know why that's such a radical concept; one of the few benefits left in this job is the ability to operate autonomously from management if you're getting the job done.
OR, like the big boys we are, we could (and do under our current CBA) simply go straight to our gate and operate the flight on time, without burning a Commute Clause event because you had to needlessly go to a Crew Room computer (In the case of our ORD crew room, .9 miles from our primary gates).
This IS a concession and we should be compensated for it. Your little straw man argument still ignores the significant change in quality of life under our current CBA. We don't have a problem with pilots showing up for work...if we were anything like our FA group then you would have a point. Why are we changing status quo to solve a problem that doesn't exist? We are challenging the very premise that it is a "simple little thing." It is not, and somehow the company managed to operate without it. Frankly they shouldn't be doing it at other airlines either, it's absurd. I've seen grown men with silver hair working for legacy carriers, racing through the terminal like a teenager just to get to some silly check-in, while running past the gate they will eventually leave from. You either get the flight out on time or you don't. If you don't show up and never call scheduling to let them know, you get disciplined/fired. I don't know why that's such a radical concept; one of the few benefits left in this job is the ability to operate autonomously from management if you're getting the job done.
Look, I'm not disputing you that a big boy can be trusted to get to work at the gate. You should be able to. But, the whole 'pay me more and I can do it' thing just don't play! If pilots at the majors can make it to the crew lounge to check in at their multiple bases with multiple concourses then we can too. It's in the contract, fine. I'll back you on that. I just don't buy that lame a$$ agreement and I'm sick of hearing it. I also don't begrudge a company for wanting to know if an employee is at work when said job runs on a tight schedule.
07-11-2012 | 06:14 PM
#446
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 328
Likes: 0
From: CRJ CA
I think what a lot of guys are saying is that they will be at work early plenty early. It's about making your way all the way out to operations to check in at some computer when you have to come all the way back to where you came from.
Further more, why do you have to check in at some computer when you start a trip but they allow you to just go to your gate while you are in the middle of the trip. They tell you to be there 45 minutes early and we are. Just makes no sense really. Just do away with the whole computer check in thing and treat people like grown ups. If you can't be trusted to be there an hour before your trip starts then why hire a person?
Further more, why do you have to check in at some computer when you start a trip but they allow you to just go to your gate while you are in the middle of the trip. They tell you to be there 45 minutes early and we are. Just makes no sense really. Just do away with the whole computer check in thing and treat people like grown ups. If you can't be trusted to be there an hour before your trip starts then why hire a person?
07-11-2012 | 06:37 PM
#447
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,148
Likes: 43
From: Volleyball Player
But if they paid you more, then you could make it, right???
Look, I'm not disputing you that a big boy can be trusted to get to work at the gate. You should be able to. But, the whole 'pay me more and I can do it' thing just don't play! If pilots at the majors can make it to the crew lounge to check in at their multiple bases with multiple concourses then we can too. It's in the contract, fine. I'll back you on that. I just don't buy that lame a$$ agreement and I'm sick of hearing it. I also don't begrudge a company for wanting to know if an employee is at work when said job runs on a tight schedule.
Look, I'm not disputing you that a big boy can be trusted to get to work at the gate. You should be able to. But, the whole 'pay me more and I can do it' thing just don't play! If pilots at the majors can make it to the crew lounge to check in at their multiple bases with multiple concourses then we can too. It's in the contract, fine. I'll back you on that. I just don't buy that lame a$$ agreement and I'm sick of hearing it. I also don't begrudge a company for wanting to know if an employee is at work when said job runs on a tight schedule.
07-11-2012 | 06:40 PM
#448
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 389
Likes: 0
But wait, these aren't growth airframes?? According to all the public documents they are merely replacements; but our all knowing union we pay dues to says this, "Such growth is due, in part, to the thousands of dedicated pilots who provide superior service for our passengers and a sought-after product for our partners." Gotta love the spin! 
07-11-2012 | 07:20 PM
#449
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,534
Likes: 1
From: A320 CA
But if they paid you more, then you could make it, right???
Look, I'm not disputing you that a big boy can be trusted to get to work at the gate. You should be able to. But, the whole 'pay me more and I can do it' thing just don't play! If pilots at the majors can make it to the crew lounge to check in at their multiple bases with multiple concourses then we can too. It's in the contract, fine. I'll back you on that. I just don't buy that lame a$$ agreement and I'm sick of hearing it. I also don't begrudge a company for wanting to know if an employee is at work when said job runs on a tight schedule.
Look, I'm not disputing you that a big boy can be trusted to get to work at the gate. You should be able to. But, the whole 'pay me more and I can do it' thing just don't play! If pilots at the majors can make it to the crew lounge to check in at their multiple bases with multiple concourses then we can too. It's in the contract, fine. I'll back you on that. I just don't buy that lame a$$ agreement and I'm sick of hearing it. I also don't begrudge a company for wanting to know if an employee is at work when said job runs on a tight schedule.
07-11-2012 | 09:58 PM
#450
Banned
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,934
Likes: 0
From: EMB 145 CPT
Really all you have to look at is the long list of grievances we currently have.
They have fought for our DHD on mainline flights to no longer be block or better because "continental" is no longer operating the flights... they have since come to their senses because they would have most likely lost the long drawn out arbitration.
They want us to check in 1 hr prior at an airport terminal despite the fact that we used negotiating capital to end that horrible idea 7 years ago. It didn't work last time, our operation is twice as spread out across more terminals, and if they want to try it again then they need to negotiate to get it back. They are adamant that they can enforce this upon us and that they are somehow being nice by giving us an "extension."
Pay: Pay claims are not being responded to within the contractual 14 day time frame, they no longer mail you a check for a gross underpayment unless you bring the contract to their attention, and they are actively changing flight times in rainmaker to their benefit weeks after you operated that flight.
We are now in SWAP for any little sneeze across the US which is fine but any trades outside of skedplus (even if it benefits the company) are about as rare as a water into wine miracle, the servers for skedplus are so slow that the ILIW and SLIW are now much less effective line adjustment tools, the wireless in the ewr crew room is now unusable and the powers that be don't want to ask United for a reasonable fix because we don't want to bite the hand that feeds us. Just like they didn't want to fight for our EARNED vacation passes, a pass priority above unaccompanied pass riders, or to stop mainline people from bumping us on our own flights by using vacation passes for an entire year.
The deadheading positive space thing is a blatant concession but now they are whittling away at our work rules and QOL little by little. It might only be a few small things but they are actively taking things away from us. A perfect example of this is how much we have to keep an eye on our pay now that Rainmaker (which wasn't ready to be rolled out) is supposedly a benefit to us. Their first software fix for rainmaker that took months to program wasn;t even to correct the problems we were having with it. It was to correctly pay us LESS! It was paying everyone 75 hrs even if they flew 60 hrs and that was what they wanted to correct first. Not the hundreds of hours of flight training pay, pairing overages, and vacation pay that they were stealing from us.
Nothing is getting better or easier for the employees. Everything benefits them or is somebody else's fault that they have no control to fix so we have to live with it.
They have fought for our DHD on mainline flights to no longer be block or better because "continental" is no longer operating the flights... they have since come to their senses because they would have most likely lost the long drawn out arbitration.
They want us to check in 1 hr prior at an airport terminal despite the fact that we used negotiating capital to end that horrible idea 7 years ago. It didn't work last time, our operation is twice as spread out across more terminals, and if they want to try it again then they need to negotiate to get it back. They are adamant that they can enforce this upon us and that they are somehow being nice by giving us an "extension."
Pay: Pay claims are not being responded to within the contractual 14 day time frame, they no longer mail you a check for a gross underpayment unless you bring the contract to their attention, and they are actively changing flight times in rainmaker to their benefit weeks after you operated that flight.
We are now in SWAP for any little sneeze across the US which is fine but any trades outside of skedplus (even if it benefits the company) are about as rare as a water into wine miracle, the servers for skedplus are so slow that the ILIW and SLIW are now much less effective line adjustment tools, the wireless in the ewr crew room is now unusable and the powers that be don't want to ask United for a reasonable fix because we don't want to bite the hand that feeds us. Just like they didn't want to fight for our EARNED vacation passes, a pass priority above unaccompanied pass riders, or to stop mainline people from bumping us on our own flights by using vacation passes for an entire year.
The deadheading positive space thing is a blatant concession but now they are whittling away at our work rules and QOL little by little. It might only be a few small things but they are actively taking things away from us. A perfect example of this is how much we have to keep an eye on our pay now that Rainmaker (which wasn't ready to be rolled out) is supposedly a benefit to us. Their first software fix for rainmaker that took months to program wasn;t even to correct the problems we were having with it. It was to correctly pay us LESS! It was paying everyone 75 hrs even if they flew 60 hrs and that was what they wanted to correct first. Not the hundreds of hours of flight training pay, pairing overages, and vacation pay that they were stealing from us.
Nothing is getting better or easier for the employees. Everything benefits them or is somebody else's fault that they have no control to fix so we have to live with it.
And how's that contract language doing for you guys? How many grievances do you have open? I hear you guys have some heartburn with the new crew planning manager, former ALPA XJT SCH Committee member.
That is the lamest, sorriest, saddest line of total bull SH!t I've ever heard! What an entitled little brat! So, let me get this straight.....you'll do the simplest little thing your company requires if they pay you more? You did know the wages when you took the job, right? But yet you gladly applied and showed up for class. Now you want more or your not putting out what you agreed to! Sad.....
I think what a lot of guys are saying is that they will be at work early plenty early. It's about making your way all the way out to operations to check in at some computer when you have to come all the way back to where you came from.
Further more, why do you have to check in at some computer when you start a trip but they allow you to just go to your gate while you are in the middle of the trip. They tell you to be there 45 minutes early and we are. Just makes no sense really. Just do away with the whole computer check in thing and treat people like grown ups. If you can't be trusted to be there an hour before your trip starts then why hire a person?
Further more, why do you have to check in at some computer when you start a trip but they allow you to just go to your gate while you are in the middle of the trip. They tell you to be there 45 minutes early and we are. Just makes no sense really. Just do away with the whole computer check in thing and treat people like grown ups. If you can't be trusted to be there an hour before your trip starts then why hire a person?
Face it, it's lame.
Last edited by Nevets; 07-11-2012 at 10:09 PM.
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