What's the Latest at ASA/Expressjet?
06-07-2014, 12:00 PM
#6261
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Position: PA34-200
Posts: 145
Originally Posted by Jefferson
And the UAW holds no responsibility in what happened at GM, Ford or Chrysler.
Any group holds responsibility in the choices it makes.
Any group holds responsibility in the choices it makes.
Board of Directors is responsible for the control and direction of the company, and governed by a Code of Ethics, the Board represents and is accountable to our stakeholders
Straight from the "code of ethics":
act ethically with honesty and integrity
06-07-2014, 12:03 PM
#6262
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2012
Position: E-175 CA
Posts: 339
Originally Posted by Jefferson
And the UAW holds no responsibility in what happened at GM, Ford or Chrysler.
Any group holds responsibility in the choices it makes.
Any group holds responsibility in the choices it makes.
06-07-2014, 12:09 PM
#6263
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: Captain
Posts: 101
Originally Posted by Captain Tony
"Money losing CPA".
SkyWest bought Legacy ExpressJet to eliminate the competition. Period. All they got for their ~$26 million was the CPAs, the ground equipment, and the ground stations (now shut down). UAL still holds the leases on all of the ERJs. Their strategic plan all along has been to extract the concessions they felt was necessary to make it profitable, relative to SkyWest Airlines and ASA, or shut it down and fly the CPAs with their own metal. (SkyWest airlines and ASA).
Their biggest mistake was agreeing to merge ASA and ExpressJet instead of keeping them stand along entities. There was no way L-ExpressJet was going to give up the outliers in their contract that make it so expensive like LTD, DC retirement, OJI Bank, and 90% PPO.
All I can say further without reaching the limits of confidentiality agreements is that I hope the XJT MEC abandons the chest thumping rhetoric and thinks long and hard this week of the futures of about 2000 pilots. It's all in their hands... we are down to the wire.
SkyWest bought Legacy ExpressJet to eliminate the competition. Period. All they got for their ~$26 million was the CPAs, the ground equipment, and the ground stations (now shut down). UAL still holds the leases on all of the ERJs. Their strategic plan all along has been to extract the concessions they felt was necessary to make it profitable, relative to SkyWest Airlines and ASA, or shut it down and fly the CPAs with their own metal. (SkyWest airlines and ASA).
Their biggest mistake was agreeing to merge ASA and ExpressJet instead of keeping them stand along entities. There was no way L-ExpressJet was going to give up the outliers in their contract that make it so expensive like LTD, DC retirement, OJI Bank, and 90% PPO.
All I can say further without reaching the limits of confidentiality agreements is that I hope the XJT MEC abandons the chest thumping rhetoric and thinks long and hard this week of the futures of about 2000 pilots. It's all in their hands... we are down to the wire.
06-07-2014, 12:10 PM
#6264
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: Captain
Posts: 101
Originally Posted by Bigshooter107
Probably not far from the truth.... Anyone know if there is anything that keeps xjt from retiring leases on erjs and replacing them with crjs crewed from the LASA side under new caps with UAL....
06-07-2014, 12:17 PM
#6265
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 360
I'm not placing blame. Your actions have consequences. If you have convinced yourself otherwise, you are mistaken.
06-07-2014, 01:12 PM
#6266
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2012
Posts: 56
Originally Posted by Captain Tony
"Money losing CPA".
SkyWest bought Legacy ExpressJet to eliminate the competition. Period. All they got for their ~$26 million was the CPAs, the ground equipment, and the ground stations (now shut down). UAL still holds the leases on all of the ERJs. Their strategic plan all along has been to extract the concessions they felt was necessary to make it profitable, relative to SkyWest Airlines and ASA, or shut it down and fly the CPAs with their own metal. (SkyWest airlines and ASA).
Their biggest mistake was agreeing to merge ASA and ExpressJet instead of keeping them stand along entities. There was no way L-ExpressJet was going to give up the outliers in their contract that make it so expensive like LTD, DC retirement, OJI Bank, and 90% PPO.
All I can say further without reaching the limits of confidentiality agreements is that I hope the XJT MEC abandons the chest thumping rhetoric and thinks long and hard this week of the futures of about 2000 pilots. It's all in their hands... we are down to the wire.
SkyWest bought Legacy ExpressJet to eliminate the competition. Period. All they got for their ~$26 million was the CPAs, the ground equipment, and the ground stations (now shut down). UAL still holds the leases on all of the ERJs. Their strategic plan all along has been to extract the concessions they felt was necessary to make it profitable, relative to SkyWest Airlines and ASA, or shut it down and fly the CPAs with their own metal. (SkyWest airlines and ASA).
Their biggest mistake was agreeing to merge ASA and ExpressJet instead of keeping them stand along entities. There was no way L-ExpressJet was going to give up the outliers in their contract that make it so expensive like LTD, DC retirement, OJI Bank, and 90% PPO.
All I can say further without reaching the limits of confidentiality agreements is that I hope the XJT MEC abandons the chest thumping rhetoric and thinks long and hard this week of the futures of about 2000 pilots. It's all in their hands... we are down to the wire.
The MEC has to follow what the members (pilots) want and not what the individual MEC members want.
06-07-2014, 01:28 PM
#6267
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: Delta Gear Slinger
Posts: 415
Originally Posted by Bigshooter107
Probably not far from the truth.... Anyone know if there is anything that keeps xjt from retiring leases on erjs and replacing them with crjs crewed from the LASA side under new caps with UAL....
06-07-2014, 01:51 PM
#6268
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: EMB 145 CPT
Posts: 2,934
Originally Posted by Flycameron
Quote:
Originally Posted by FDX8891
Two things:
One: SkyWest Inc. had a huge part in the money-losing CPAs you speak of...
Two: SkyWest Inc. cannot declare ExpressJet bankrupt. In order to do that, all of Inc. would have to go bankrupt. You really think they're gonna screw their shareholders over and tank their stock so they can get concessions out of us?
God, this sh*t spewed on here makes my head spin.
I guess I'm confused as to why Skywest had a huge part in the money-loosing CPA's? Why would they be a huge part in the loosing CPA and then still want to buy Expressjet? That just seems a little odd to me. Sounds like United got what they wanted out of the deal more than anyone. Let me see if I understand, Skywest made a bid for the flying because they are $30 million dollars cheaper to run which meant expressjet had to match the bid to get the contract. Since they matched the bid it made it a loosing money CPA on the expressjet side but a money maker of the Skywest side?
Why in the world is the expressjet contract $30 million more than Skywest? That seems like a very big difference in numbers? Do Skywest pilots get paid half as much? That just seems like a very big difference and either someone's contract is out of whack or someone is getting screwed? All in all the majors are getting what they want in the end, cheaper regional flying?
Originally Posted by FDX8891
Two things:
One: SkyWest Inc. had a huge part in the money-losing CPAs you speak of...
Two: SkyWest Inc. cannot declare ExpressJet bankrupt. In order to do that, all of Inc. would have to go bankrupt. You really think they're gonna screw their shareholders over and tank their stock so they can get concessions out of us?
God, this sh*t spewed on here makes my head spin.
I guess I'm confused as to why Skywest had a huge part in the money-loosing CPA's? Why would they be a huge part in the loosing CPA and then still want to buy Expressjet? That just seems a little odd to me. Sounds like United got what they wanted out of the deal more than anyone. Let me see if I understand, Skywest made a bid for the flying because they are $30 million dollars cheaper to run which meant expressjet had to match the bid to get the contract. Since they matched the bid it made it a loosing money CPA on the expressjet side but a money maker of the Skywest side?
Why in the world is the expressjet contract $30 million more than Skywest? That seems like a very big difference in numbers? Do Skywest pilots get paid half as much? That just seems like a very big difference and either someone's contract is out of whack or someone is getting screwed? All in all the majors are getting what they want in the end, cheaper regional flying?
As for the $30M, that's just the difference in cost of pilot compensation. Keep in mind that we are talking about roughly 3,000 pilots on each side. The XJT pilots have higher 401k matching, a defined contribution plan, higher sick and vacation accrual, had higher per diem, lower insurance premium caps, workers' comp bank, and LTD insurance.
Originally Posted by Jefferson
Quote:
Originally Posted by FDX8891
Two: SkyWest Inc. cannot declare ExpressJet bankrupt. In order to do that, all of Inc. would have to go bankrupt.
God, this sh*t spewed on here makes my head spin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevets
When you say LXJT, what you are talking about (even if you don't realize or admit it), is the CPA LXJT has with UAL. Just as the thorn ASA is is actually the second lowest clause. Both of which were negotiated by the infallible at INC.
No, but UAL does huge vested interest in cheap lift. And they have a CPA with Inc requiring them to do so.
It NEVER ceases to amaze me how a bachelor's degree and a pilots license seem to somehow qualify people in Corporate Law.
Originally Posted by FDX8891
Two: SkyWest Inc. cannot declare ExpressJet bankrupt. In order to do that, all of Inc. would have to go bankrupt.
God, this sh*t spewed on here makes my head spin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevets
When you say LXJT, what you are talking about (even if you don't realize or admit it), is the CPA LXJT has with UAL. Just as the thorn ASA is is actually the second lowest clause. Both of which were negotiated by the infallible at INC.
No, but UAL does huge vested interest in cheap lift. And they have a CPA with Inc requiring them to do so.
It NEVER ceases to amaze me how a bachelor's degree and a pilots license seem to somehow qualify people in Corporate Law.
My points are that it was Skywest who negotiated the CPAs at both XJT and ASA. That includes the low revenue and second lowest clause.
And my other point is that UAL does have a vested interest in getting the least expensive regional lift that they get from XJT.
Originally Posted by Captain Tony
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flycameron
I guess I'm confused as to why Skywest had a huge part in the money-loosing CPA's? Why would they be a huge part in the loosing CPA and then still want to buy Expressjet? That just seems a little odd to me. Sounds like United got what they wanted out of the deal more than anyone. Let me see if I understand, Skywest made a bid for the flying because they are $30 million dollars cheaper to run which meant expressjet had to match the bid to get the contract. Since they matched the bid it made it a loosing money CPA on the expressjet side but a money maker of the Skywest side?
Why in the world is the expressjet contract $30 million more than Skywest? That seems like a very big difference in numbers? Do Skywest pilots get paid half as much? That just seems like a very big difference and either someone's contract is out of whack or someone is getting screwed? All in all the majors are getting what they want in the end, cheaper regional flying?
"Money losing CPA".
SkyWest bought Legacy ExpressJet to eliminate the competition. Period. All they got for their ~$26 million was the CPAs, the ground equipment, and the ground stations (now shut down). UAL still holds the leases on all of the ERJs. Their strategic plan all along has been to extract the concessions they felt was necessary to make it profitable, relative to SkyWest Airlines and ASA, or shut it down and fly the CPAs with their own metal. (SkyWest airlines and ASA).
Their biggest mistake was agreeing to merge ASA and ExpressJet instead of keeping them stand along entities. There was no way L-ExpressJet was going to give up the outliers in their contract that make it so expensive like LTD, DC retirement, OJI Bank, and 90% PPO.
All I can say further without reaching the limits of confidentiality agreements is that I hope the XJT MEC abandons the chest thumping rhetoric and thinks long and hard this week of the futures of about 2000 pilots. It's all in their hands... we are down to the wire.
Originally Posted by Flycameron
I guess I'm confused as to why Skywest had a huge part in the money-loosing CPA's? Why would they be a huge part in the loosing CPA and then still want to buy Expressjet? That just seems a little odd to me. Sounds like United got what they wanted out of the deal more than anyone. Let me see if I understand, Skywest made a bid for the flying because they are $30 million dollars cheaper to run which meant expressjet had to match the bid to get the contract. Since they matched the bid it made it a loosing money CPA on the expressjet side but a money maker of the Skywest side?
Why in the world is the expressjet contract $30 million more than Skywest? That seems like a very big difference in numbers? Do Skywest pilots get paid half as much? That just seems like a very big difference and either someone's contract is out of whack or someone is getting screwed? All in all the majors are getting what they want in the end, cheaper regional flying?
"Money losing CPA".
SkyWest bought Legacy ExpressJet to eliminate the competition. Period. All they got for their ~$26 million was the CPAs, the ground equipment, and the ground stations (now shut down). UAL still holds the leases on all of the ERJs. Their strategic plan all along has been to extract the concessions they felt was necessary to make it profitable, relative to SkyWest Airlines and ASA, or shut it down and fly the CPAs with their own metal. (SkyWest airlines and ASA).
Their biggest mistake was agreeing to merge ASA and ExpressJet instead of keeping them stand along entities. There was no way L-ExpressJet was going to give up the outliers in their contract that make it so expensive like LTD, DC retirement, OJI Bank, and 90% PPO.
All I can say further without reaching the limits of confidentiality agreements is that I hope the XJT MEC abandons the chest thumping rhetoric and thinks long and hard this week of the futures of about 2000 pilots. It's all in their hands... we are down to the wire.
Originally Posted by Jefferson
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyguy94
Nobody is thumping their chests. We already voted down the TA and made it clear to the union we wouldn't take concessions. If United won't renegotiate with Skywest profitable CPA's then we are prepared for whatever the consequences might be.
I can TOTALLY respect that... seriously. That's what the vote is all about. If it is understood that you are voting to either have it your way or not have it at all, and willing to accept that then so be it...
The unfortunate thing is that there are hundreds of employees that don't get a vote that are subject to those same consequences.
Originally Posted by flyguy94
Nobody is thumping their chests. We already voted down the TA and made it clear to the union we wouldn't take concessions. If United won't renegotiate with Skywest profitable CPA's then we are prepared for whatever the consequences might be.
I can TOTALLY respect that... seriously. That's what the vote is all about. If it is understood that you are voting to either have it your way or not have it at all, and willing to accept that then so be it...
The unfortunate thing is that there are hundreds of employees that don't get a vote that are subject to those same consequences.
Originally Posted by Bigshooter107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Tony
"Money losing CPA".
SkyWest bought Legacy ExpressJet to eliminate the competition. Period. All they got for their ~$26 million was the CPAs, the ground equipment, and the ground stations (now shut down). UAL still holds the leases on all of the ERJs. Their strategic plan all along has been to extract the concessions they felt was necessary to make it profitable, relative to SkyWest Airlines and ASA, or shut it down and fly the CPAs with their own metal. (SkyWest airlines and ASA).
Their biggest mistake was agreeing to merge ASA and ExpressJet instead of keeping them stand along entities. There was no way L-ExpressJet was going to give up the outliers in their contract that make it so expensive like LTD, DC retirement, OJI Bank, and 90% PPO.
All I can say further without reaching the limits of confidentiality agreements is that I hope the XJT MEC abandons the chest thumping rhetoric and thinks long and hard this week of the futures of about 2000 pilots. It's all in their hands... we are down to the wire.
Probably not far from the truth.... Anyone know if there is anything that keeps xjt from retiring leases on erjs and replacing them with crjs crewed from the LASA side under new caps with UAL....
Originally Posted by Captain Tony
"Money losing CPA".
SkyWest bought Legacy ExpressJet to eliminate the competition. Period. All they got for their ~$26 million was the CPAs, the ground equipment, and the ground stations (now shut down). UAL still holds the leases on all of the ERJs. Their strategic plan all along has been to extract the concessions they felt was necessary to make it profitable, relative to SkyWest Airlines and ASA, or shut it down and fly the CPAs with their own metal. (SkyWest airlines and ASA).
Their biggest mistake was agreeing to merge ASA and ExpressJet instead of keeping them stand along entities. There was no way L-ExpressJet was going to give up the outliers in their contract that make it so expensive like LTD, DC retirement, OJI Bank, and 90% PPO.
All I can say further without reaching the limits of confidentiality agreements is that I hope the XJT MEC abandons the chest thumping rhetoric and thinks long and hard this week of the futures of about 2000 pilots. It's all in their hands... we are down to the wire.
Probably not far from the truth.... Anyone know if there is anything that keeps xjt from retiring leases on erjs and replacing them with crjs crewed from the LASA side under new caps with UAL....
Originally Posted by Jefferson
I'm not placing blame. Your actions have consequences. If you have convinced yourself otherwise, you are mistaken.
Last edited by Nevets; 06-07-2014 at 02:08 PM.
06-07-2014, 03:20 PM
#6269
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 360
Originally Posted by Nevets
Right, and what about management's actions and their consequences? Does our ceo's immoral whipsaw business model have no consequences for his own employees?
06-07-2014, 04:21 PM
#6270
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: EMB 145 CPT
Posts: 2,934
Originally Posted by Jefferson
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevets
Right, and what about management's actions and their consequences? Does our ceo's immoral whipsaw business model have no consequences for his own employees?
Of course it does. Your question is ridiculous.
Originally Posted by Nevets
Right, and what about management's actions and their consequences? Does our ceo's immoral whipsaw business model have no consequences for his own employees?
Of course it does. Your question is ridiculous.
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