What's the Latest at ASA/Expressjet?
05-26-2014 | 07:21 AM
#6161
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,967
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That is the very definition of closed shop. You may be "well versed" but you don't know what a closed shop is? Guess my definition of "well versed" is off.
If you have to be a member of ALPA to get hired at an ALPA carrier how are you not being forced to join ALPA? You cannot get the job without joining the union.
Now, I will concede that the original post by Anchor Down said hire from only union carriers and not hire only union members which is two different things because you can work for a union carrier without being a union member.
If you have to be a member of ALPA to get hired at an ALPA carrier how are you not being forced to join ALPA? You cannot get the job without joining the union.
Now, I will concede that the original post by Anchor Down said hire from only union carriers and not hire only union members which is two different things because you can work for a union carrier without being a union member.
You're not being forced to join ALPA, you're being rewarded.
There's plenty of non union carriers a non ALPA pilot can still get hired at.
But really it doesn't matter. This was a "feel good" resolution that has no chance of going anywhere. If you truly had the experience you claim you would know that.
05-26-2014 | 07:25 AM
#6162
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 762
Likes: 0
Now I do concede that I assumed that only hiring pilots from union carriers meant hiring only union pilots, and that was the catalyst for this discussion. Hiring only from union carriers is different than hiring only union pilots. However that was stated by Anchor Down, and there is still no proof of this resolution.
05-26-2014 | 07:29 AM
#6163
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 762
Likes: 0
Did you actually read what I said?
You're not being forced to join ALPA, you're being rewarded.
There's plenty of non union carriers a non ALPA pilot can still get hired at.
But really it doesn't matter. This was a "feel good" resolution that has no chance of going anywhere. If you truly had the experience you claim you would know that.
You're not being forced to join ALPA, you're being rewarded.
There's plenty of non union carriers a non ALPA pilot can still get hired at.
But really it doesn't matter. This was a "feel good" resolution that has no chance of going anywhere. If you truly had the experience you claim you would know that.
And yes, I agree this resolution carries no weight.
05-26-2014 | 07:59 AM
#6164
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 248
Likes: 0
From: Left Seat
There will be an ALPA comm on the resolution hopefully in the coming weeks. Otherwise you'll just have to take my word for it. I spoke to the gentleman that actually proposed it.
Captain Tony sees him everyday in the Office.
AnchorDown
Captain Tony sees him everyday in the Office.
AnchorDown
05-26-2014 | 08:53 AM
#6165
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 363
Likes: 0
Anyone else feel news coming?
05-26-2014 | 09:26 AM
#6167
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 363
Likes: 0
Mgmt shift. Company presses for then cancels negotiations, Friday MEC/lawyer/mgmt meetings.... I smell news....
05-26-2014 | 10:05 AM
#6168
Banned
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,934
Likes: 0
From: EMB 145 CPT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevets
Again, who said anything about ALPA? Each mec is independent on what they negotiate in their contracts. And each negotiation is dependent on the profitability or lack thereof of each respective company. Why is that hard for you guys to understand? It's not astrophysics! During good times, generally you get improvements. During bad times, generally you get erosion. It's simple economics. That's the constant across all different unions, whether it's ALPA, IBT, Apa, regional, major etc. Both regional and mainline ALPA MECs have gotten gains when their companies have been profitable. Same can be said of all the other pilot unions. THE constant is not the letters in the name of each independent pilot group, it's the economics of the particular airline.
So please stop making these excuses for not voting SAPA as your NMB recognized bargaining agent.
If there is no union between ALPA thru national the what is the point of having a union? ALPA national should have never recommended regionals take concessions for new planes. For you to say that it's each MEC for themselves is completely defeating the purpose of the union.
SAPA negotiates on behalf of the pilots and they aren't doing that bad considering most other regional are lacking in pay and QOL compared to here.
So tell me again why we just make SAPA an official union? You would still complain that the whipsaw is unfair and we want one lis, and that will never happen.
Originally Posted by Nevets
Again, who said anything about ALPA? Each mec is independent on what they negotiate in their contracts. And each negotiation is dependent on the profitability or lack thereof of each respective company. Why is that hard for you guys to understand? It's not astrophysics! During good times, generally you get improvements. During bad times, generally you get erosion. It's simple economics. That's the constant across all different unions, whether it's ALPA, IBT, Apa, regional, major etc. Both regional and mainline ALPA MECs have gotten gains when their companies have been profitable. Same can be said of all the other pilot unions. THE constant is not the letters in the name of each independent pilot group, it's the economics of the particular airline.
So please stop making these excuses for not voting SAPA as your NMB recognized bargaining agent.
If there is no union between ALPA thru national the what is the point of having a union? ALPA national should have never recommended regionals take concessions for new planes. For you to say that it's each MEC for themselves is completely defeating the purpose of the union.
SAPA negotiates on behalf of the pilots and they aren't doing that bad considering most other regional are lacking in pay and QOL compared to here.
So tell me again why we just make SAPA an official union? You would still complain that the whipsaw is unfair and we want one lis, and that will never happen.
This is the thing, not only do you ride coat tails of all the other unionized pilots in the safety and security front, by not helping yourselves, you make it harder for us to help ourselves as well.
Case in point, since your 3200 pilot group is tied into the XJT negotiations when it comes to 401k, medical insurance, and scope, it makes it immensely more difficult to get any improvements in those areas because it would cost the company more than if we were just negotiating for ourselves. That's riding coat tails.
05-26-2014 | 10:06 AM
#6169
Banned
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,934
Likes: 0
From: EMB 145 CPT
SkyWest needs a union, working conditions and policies have gotten worse and are eroding even farther.
But when Moak had the option of stopping the contract at PSA and Endeavor it clearly proves that ALPA cannot represent the regionals.
Would the same thing have happened at Delta?
But when Moak had the option of stopping the contract at PSA and Endeavor it clearly proves that ALPA cannot represent the regionals.
Would the same thing have happened at Delta?
05-26-2014 | 10:17 AM
#6170
Banned
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,934
Likes: 0
From: EMB 145 CPT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Tony
Did you actually read what I said?
You're not being forced to join ALPA, you're being rewarded.
There's plenty of non union carriers a non ALPA pilot can still get hired at.
But really it doesn't matter. This was a "feel good" resolution that has no chance of going anywhere. If you truly had the experience you claim you would know that.
I did read what you said. Once again, a company cannot require you to be part of a union prior to being hired or make joining a union a condition of employment. It does not matter how many non-union carriers there are.
And yes, I agree this resolution carries no weight.
Originally Posted by Captain Tony
Did you actually read what I said?
You're not being forced to join ALPA, you're being rewarded.
There's plenty of non union carriers a non ALPA pilot can still get hired at.
But really it doesn't matter. This was a "feel good" resolution that has no chance of going anywhere. If you truly had the experience you claim you would know that.
I did read what you said. Once again, a company cannot require you to be part of a union prior to being hired or make joining a union a condition of employment. It does not matter how many non-union carriers there are.
And yes, I agree this resolution carries no weight.
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