I competely agree that there is a certain amount of risk involved with breaking into any field. That is standard across the board, but have you no sympathy for those pilots duped into this profession by promises of grandeur, while shelling upwards of $150k, only to be left with a job which pays less than a McDonald's burger flipper, and facing possible furlough? I'm lucky enough to have been out of student debt since long before I was ever hired at ExpressJet, but I meet people in the crew room every day, who have $100k+ in student loan debt, having to choose whether to pay the piper or feed their family. But that's okay... The guys back in the 60s had to pay their dues by sitting sideways for a few years, so this is justified...

 

Here is some cold hard truth for you... If your education included shelling

and not one class taught you the economics of such a decision... then you need to take that up with your educator..

 

I'm sure he wasn't also "educated " that his company would close his base and force him to commute and spend additional money on hotels, that age 65 rule would be passed and because of it he would not be able to become a captain, that he would be furloughed, that his flow-through would disappear, that his benefits would be diminished, that his pay would be cut, that he would be threatened with losing his job and could not take another job without an even more severe pay-cut, that his managers would agree to profit losing contracts while taking bonuses for themselves, that his contract would be constantly violated, that he would not be paid correctly or on time, etc., etc.

 

I understand all the unpredictable variables, but dang 150 grand seems like an awful lot to me. I think there are a lot more economical ways of getting that done. It's been a while since I finished, but I spent a fraction of that. I don't know.... Maybe everything tripled since then, but I'm wondering how I would even pay that off in a timely manor on a captain salary

 

In 2002, you could rent a C-172 wet for 65/hr. Now they go for 160/hr. Even a 152 which was about 40/hr is now 95/hr.

Oil has gone from 30/barrel to where it is now, 100?

A lot of schools have closed to, so the local flight school may not be an option. You have to move somewhere and pay rent on top of instruction. Only very few schools have carve outs that allow reduced training for an ATP, otherwise you need 1500 hrs. Flying checks is gone too.

 

I'm not entirely sure how many or which tail numbers. I'm waiting to talk to union reps about it. Playing phone tag. I just know it's happening. As others have said, the leases are expiring and skywest is releasing them. I don't think there's anything we can do

 

The old guys don't understand our troubles and we don't understand theirs. A lot of them have been hammered as well. I think what is being missed understood here is that those of us who have spent 100k + on this career feel a little ripped off. With an hour of instruction costing over a $100 an hour, what choice did we have? Some of us approaching a decade as regional FOs! 30 years old with no house, no family no money in the bank, and debt up to your eyeballs. I think anyone on our generation feels the American dream has been taken away from us. We were told if you go to college you will get a good job. A lot of people graduating now cannot find a job. Or one that pays well. This is the problem we are facing.

I take fully responsibility for choosing this career and choosing to take on a high debt load. But what I won't take is some old guy telling me to sit down and shut up because I don't deserve to be paid a fair salary because I'm a regional pilot. We've all had troubles in this industry, so let's act like we are on the same team and not enemies.

 

The 100k figure keeps popping up because you feel like that justifies your frustration on wanting a respectful job, that pays well, has travel benefits, enjoyable, has union protection, ability to leave work at work. The breaking story is that everyone wants that, and your promissory note doesn’t mean anything.
You can be upset that you have spent 10 years of your life and have not managed to produce what you desire; so you can and should reject any TA that is not what you want, and no senior should ever give you flak for it.

 

There were a lot of factors since 2001 which were out of any pilot's control. SARS's scared passengers away for a while, 140/ barrel oil caused havoc, 2008 mkt. crash, age 65, etc. The larger view is Wall Street and the mgmt. class have figured out how to ALWAYS get bonuses despite economic conditions. The middle class in this country has been severely depleted due to outsourcing.

All out of our direct control.

At the local level, however, what is intolerable is a shoddy mgmt. which destroys their own company and then expects employees to pick up the pieces--again and again. It's never going to stop if WE don't stop it. The seniority system has us boxed in and we cannot vote with our feet w/o committing a very bad self-inflicted wound. No wonder we are all frustrated and ****ed-off.

 

The system has flaws. The pay parity between a mainline 717 F/O and a regional 90 seat RJ pilot FOR THE EXACT SAME SKILL SET is not sustainable. These facts no one has a problem with.
However, when F/O "First Job out of College" (if not ever) sits down with a 6000 hour "consequence is depriving the world of the Captain he DESERVES to be" chip on his shoulder.... plows through A/C flows and speed rattles checklists because hes "over it".... then wonders why the guy in the other seat has such a bad attitude... THEN I have a problem...