What's the Latest at ASA/Expressjet?
06-07-2014 | 12:17 PM
#6311
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 363
Likes: 0
I'm not placing blame. Your actions have consequences. If you have convinced yourself otherwise, you are mistaken.
06-07-2014 | 01:12 PM
#6312
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
"Money losing CPA".
SkyWest bought Legacy ExpressJet to eliminate the competition. Period. All they got for their ~$26 million was the CPAs, the ground equipment, and the ground stations (now shut down). UAL still holds the leases on all of the ERJs. Their strategic plan all along has been to extract the concessions they felt was necessary to make it profitable, relative to SkyWest Airlines and ASA, or shut it down and fly the CPAs with their own metal. (SkyWest airlines and ASA).
Their biggest mistake was agreeing to merge ASA and ExpressJet instead of keeping them stand along entities. There was no way L-ExpressJet was going to give up the outliers in their contract that make it so expensive like LTD, DC retirement, OJI Bank, and 90% PPO.
All I can say further without reaching the limits of confidentiality agreements is that I hope the XJT MEC abandons the chest thumping rhetoric and thinks long and hard this week of the futures of about 2000 pilots. It's all in their hands... we are down to the wire.
SkyWest bought Legacy ExpressJet to eliminate the competition. Period. All they got for their ~$26 million was the CPAs, the ground equipment, and the ground stations (now shut down). UAL still holds the leases on all of the ERJs. Their strategic plan all along has been to extract the concessions they felt was necessary to make it profitable, relative to SkyWest Airlines and ASA, or shut it down and fly the CPAs with their own metal. (SkyWest airlines and ASA).
Their biggest mistake was agreeing to merge ASA and ExpressJet instead of keeping them stand along entities. There was no way L-ExpressJet was going to give up the outliers in their contract that make it so expensive like LTD, DC retirement, OJI Bank, and 90% PPO.
All I can say further without reaching the limits of confidentiality agreements is that I hope the XJT MEC abandons the chest thumping rhetoric and thinks long and hard this week of the futures of about 2000 pilots. It's all in their hands... we are down to the wire.
The MEC has to follow what the members (pilots) want and not what the individual MEC members want.
06-07-2014 | 01:28 PM
#6313
Banned
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 415
Likes: 0
From: Delta Gear Slinger
I believe the TPA prevents exactly this scenario. Tony or someone would have to chime in with the details.
06-07-2014 | 01:51 PM
#6314
Banned
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,934
Likes: 0
From: EMB 145 CPT
Quote:
Originally Posted by FDX8891
Two things:
One: SkyWest Inc. had a huge part in the money-losing CPAs you speak of...
Two: SkyWest Inc. cannot declare ExpressJet bankrupt. In order to do that, all of Inc. would have to go bankrupt. You really think they're gonna screw their shareholders over and tank their stock so they can get concessions out of us?
God, this sh*t spewed on here makes my head spin.
I guess I'm confused as to why Skywest had a huge part in the money-loosing CPA's? Why would they be a huge part in the loosing CPA and then still want to buy Expressjet? That just seems a little odd to me. Sounds like United got what they wanted out of the deal more than anyone. Let me see if I understand, Skywest made a bid for the flying because they are $30 million dollars cheaper to run which meant expressjet had to match the bid to get the contract. Since they matched the bid it made it a loosing money CPA on the expressjet side but a money maker of the Skywest side?
Why in the world is the expressjet contract $30 million more than Skywest? That seems like a very big difference in numbers? Do Skywest pilots get paid half as much? That just seems like a very big difference and either someone's contract is out of whack or someone is getting screwed? All in all the majors are getting what they want in the end, cheaper regional flying?
Originally Posted by FDX8891
Two things:
One: SkyWest Inc. had a huge part in the money-losing CPAs you speak of...
Two: SkyWest Inc. cannot declare ExpressJet bankrupt. In order to do that, all of Inc. would have to go bankrupt. You really think they're gonna screw their shareholders over and tank their stock so they can get concessions out of us?
God, this sh*t spewed on here makes my head spin.
I guess I'm confused as to why Skywest had a huge part in the money-loosing CPA's? Why would they be a huge part in the loosing CPA and then still want to buy Expressjet? That just seems a little odd to me. Sounds like United got what they wanted out of the deal more than anyone. Let me see if I understand, Skywest made a bid for the flying because they are $30 million dollars cheaper to run which meant expressjet had to match the bid to get the contract. Since they matched the bid it made it a loosing money CPA on the expressjet side but a money maker of the Skywest side?
Why in the world is the expressjet contract $30 million more than Skywest? That seems like a very big difference in numbers? Do Skywest pilots get paid half as much? That just seems like a very big difference and either someone's contract is out of whack or someone is getting screwed? All in all the majors are getting what they want in the end, cheaper regional flying?
As for the $30M, that's just the difference in cost of pilot compensation. Keep in mind that we are talking about roughly 3,000 pilots on each side. The XJT pilots have higher 401k matching, a defined contribution plan, higher sick and vacation accrual, had higher per diem, lower insurance premium caps, workers' comp bank, and LTD insurance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FDX8891
Two: SkyWest Inc. cannot declare ExpressJet bankrupt. In order to do that, all of Inc. would have to go bankrupt.
God, this sh*t spewed on here makes my head spin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevets
When you say LXJT, what you are talking about (even if you don't realize or admit it), is the CPA LXJT has with UAL. Just as the thorn ASA is is actually the second lowest clause. Both of which were negotiated by the infallible at INC.
No, but UAL does huge vested interest in cheap lift. And they have a CPA with Inc requiring them to do so.
It NEVER ceases to amaze me how a bachelor's degree and a pilots license seem to somehow qualify people in Corporate Law.
Originally Posted by FDX8891
Two: SkyWest Inc. cannot declare ExpressJet bankrupt. In order to do that, all of Inc. would have to go bankrupt.
God, this sh*t spewed on here makes my head spin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevets
When you say LXJT, what you are talking about (even if you don't realize or admit it), is the CPA LXJT has with UAL. Just as the thorn ASA is is actually the second lowest clause. Both of which were negotiated by the infallible at INC.
No, but UAL does huge vested interest in cheap lift. And they have a CPA with Inc requiring them to do so.
It NEVER ceases to amaze me how a bachelor's degree and a pilots license seem to somehow qualify people in Corporate Law.
My points are that it was Skywest who negotiated the CPAs at both XJT and ASA. That includes the low revenue and second lowest clause.
And my other point is that UAL does have a vested interest in getting the least expensive regional lift that they get from XJT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flycameron
I guess I'm confused as to why Skywest had a huge part in the money-loosing CPA's? Why would they be a huge part in the loosing CPA and then still want to buy Expressjet? That just seems a little odd to me. Sounds like United got what they wanted out of the deal more than anyone. Let me see if I understand, Skywest made a bid for the flying because they are $30 million dollars cheaper to run which meant expressjet had to match the bid to get the contract. Since they matched the bid it made it a loosing money CPA on the expressjet side but a money maker of the Skywest side?
Why in the world is the expressjet contract $30 million more than Skywest? That seems like a very big difference in numbers? Do Skywest pilots get paid half as much? That just seems like a very big difference and either someone's contract is out of whack or someone is getting screwed? All in all the majors are getting what they want in the end, cheaper regional flying?
"Money losing CPA".
SkyWest bought Legacy ExpressJet to eliminate the competition. Period. All they got for their ~$26 million was the CPAs, the ground equipment, and the ground stations (now shut down). UAL still holds the leases on all of the ERJs. Their strategic plan all along has been to extract the concessions they felt was necessary to make it profitable, relative to SkyWest Airlines and ASA, or shut it down and fly the CPAs with their own metal. (SkyWest airlines and ASA).
Their biggest mistake was agreeing to merge ASA and ExpressJet instead of keeping them stand along entities. There was no way L-ExpressJet was going to give up the outliers in their contract that make it so expensive like LTD, DC retirement, OJI Bank, and 90% PPO.
All I can say further without reaching the limits of confidentiality agreements is that I hope the XJT MEC abandons the chest thumping rhetoric and thinks long and hard this week of the futures of about 2000 pilots. It's all in their hands... we are down to the wire.
Originally Posted by Flycameron
I guess I'm confused as to why Skywest had a huge part in the money-loosing CPA's? Why would they be a huge part in the loosing CPA and then still want to buy Expressjet? That just seems a little odd to me. Sounds like United got what they wanted out of the deal more than anyone. Let me see if I understand, Skywest made a bid for the flying because they are $30 million dollars cheaper to run which meant expressjet had to match the bid to get the contract. Since they matched the bid it made it a loosing money CPA on the expressjet side but a money maker of the Skywest side?
Why in the world is the expressjet contract $30 million more than Skywest? That seems like a very big difference in numbers? Do Skywest pilots get paid half as much? That just seems like a very big difference and either someone's contract is out of whack or someone is getting screwed? All in all the majors are getting what they want in the end, cheaper regional flying?
"Money losing CPA".
SkyWest bought Legacy ExpressJet to eliminate the competition. Period. All they got for their ~$26 million was the CPAs, the ground equipment, and the ground stations (now shut down). UAL still holds the leases on all of the ERJs. Their strategic plan all along has been to extract the concessions they felt was necessary to make it profitable, relative to SkyWest Airlines and ASA, or shut it down and fly the CPAs with their own metal. (SkyWest airlines and ASA).
Their biggest mistake was agreeing to merge ASA and ExpressJet instead of keeping them stand along entities. There was no way L-ExpressJet was going to give up the outliers in their contract that make it so expensive like LTD, DC retirement, OJI Bank, and 90% PPO.
All I can say further without reaching the limits of confidentiality agreements is that I hope the XJT MEC abandons the chest thumping rhetoric and thinks long and hard this week of the futures of about 2000 pilots. It's all in their hands... we are down to the wire.
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyguy94
Nobody is thumping their chests. We already voted down the TA and made it clear to the union we wouldn't take concessions. If United won't renegotiate with Skywest profitable CPA's then we are prepared for whatever the consequences might be.
I can TOTALLY respect that... seriously. That's what the vote is all about. If it is understood that you are voting to either have it your way or not have it at all, and willing to accept that then so be it...
The unfortunate thing is that there are hundreds of employees that don't get a vote that are subject to those same consequences.
Originally Posted by flyguy94
Nobody is thumping their chests. We already voted down the TA and made it clear to the union we wouldn't take concessions. If United won't renegotiate with Skywest profitable CPA's then we are prepared for whatever the consequences might be.
I can TOTALLY respect that... seriously. That's what the vote is all about. If it is understood that you are voting to either have it your way or not have it at all, and willing to accept that then so be it...
The unfortunate thing is that there are hundreds of employees that don't get a vote that are subject to those same consequences.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Tony
"Money losing CPA".
SkyWest bought Legacy ExpressJet to eliminate the competition. Period. All they got for their ~$26 million was the CPAs, the ground equipment, and the ground stations (now shut down). UAL still holds the leases on all of the ERJs. Their strategic plan all along has been to extract the concessions they felt was necessary to make it profitable, relative to SkyWest Airlines and ASA, or shut it down and fly the CPAs with their own metal. (SkyWest airlines and ASA).
Their biggest mistake was agreeing to merge ASA and ExpressJet instead of keeping them stand along entities. There was no way L-ExpressJet was going to give up the outliers in their contract that make it so expensive like LTD, DC retirement, OJI Bank, and 90% PPO.
All I can say further without reaching the limits of confidentiality agreements is that I hope the XJT MEC abandons the chest thumping rhetoric and thinks long and hard this week of the futures of about 2000 pilots. It's all in their hands... we are down to the wire.
Probably not far from the truth.... Anyone know if there is anything that keeps xjt from retiring leases on erjs and replacing them with crjs crewed from the LASA side under new caps with UAL....
Originally Posted by Captain Tony
"Money losing CPA".
SkyWest bought Legacy ExpressJet to eliminate the competition. Period. All they got for their ~$26 million was the CPAs, the ground equipment, and the ground stations (now shut down). UAL still holds the leases on all of the ERJs. Their strategic plan all along has been to extract the concessions they felt was necessary to make it profitable, relative to SkyWest Airlines and ASA, or shut it down and fly the CPAs with their own metal. (SkyWest airlines and ASA).
Their biggest mistake was agreeing to merge ASA and ExpressJet instead of keeping them stand along entities. There was no way L-ExpressJet was going to give up the outliers in their contract that make it so expensive like LTD, DC retirement, OJI Bank, and 90% PPO.
All I can say further without reaching the limits of confidentiality agreements is that I hope the XJT MEC abandons the chest thumping rhetoric and thinks long and hard this week of the futures of about 2000 pilots. It's all in their hands... we are down to the wire.
Probably not far from the truth.... Anyone know if there is anything that keeps xjt from retiring leases on erjs and replacing them with crjs crewed from the LASA side under new caps with UAL....
Right, and what about management's actions and their consequences? Does our ceo's immoral whipsaw business model have no consequences for his own employees?
Last edited by Nevets; 06-07-2014 at 02:08 PM.
06-07-2014 | 04:21 PM
#6316
Banned
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,934
Likes: 0
From: EMB 145 CPT
Why is it ridiculous? If my actions have consequences, then why doesn't our ceo's actions also have consequences? Especially since it's his own employees we are talking about?
06-07-2014 | 05:04 PM
#6317
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 248
Likes: 0
From: Left Seat
AnchorDown
Last edited by AnchorDown; 06-07-2014 at 05:19 PM.
06-07-2014 | 05:25 PM
#6318
Banned
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,934
Likes: 0
From: EMB 145 CPT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevets
Why is it ridiculous? If my actions have consequences, then why doesn't our ceo's actions also have consequences? Especially since it's his own employees we are talking about?
How many people do you employ? Oh that's right, DOUGHNUT. when you run your own airline you get to command and dictate it's practices. Until then, I really look forward to you falling on your sword and enacting your backup plan.
AnchorDown
Originally Posted by Nevets
Why is it ridiculous? If my actions have consequences, then why doesn't our ceo's actions also have consequences? Especially since it's his own employees we are talking about?
How many people do you employ? Oh that's right, DOUGHNUT. when you run your own airline you get to command and dictate it's practices. Until then, I really look forward to you falling on your sword and enacting your backup plan.
AnchorDown
Anyway, I've already assumed that all the ERJs are getting parked. I have absolutely no problems with that. You have anything else?
06-07-2014 | 05:51 PM
#6319
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 822
Likes: 0
From: CRJ200 Capt.
Clearly the best thing at this point is to cut the E145 side loose....After all they don't care about this job and they all have plan B ready to go...Let's do the humane thing and release them from their immoral captors...
06-07-2014 | 07:10 PM
#6320
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 363
Likes: 0
It still doesn't explain why, us as pilots, have more responsibility to our ceo's employees than he does? Can you at least answer that? I find it off that you would defend any human being that uses an immoral whipsaw business model against us.
Anyway, I've already assumed that all the ERJs are getting parked. I have absolutely no problems with that. You have anything else?
Anyway, I've already assumed that all the ERJs are getting parked. I have absolutely no problems with that. You have anything else?
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