What's the Latest at ASA/Expressjet?
10-14-2014, 06:49 PM
#7711
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,218
^exactly!! Company love that....
10-14-2014, 06:53 PM
#7712
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: Delta Gear Slinger
Posts: 415
DING! I still don't see a problem with Smartpref. We can always have contract language to make smartpref do what we want, which is why Prefbid is so great for us in the first place. I don't care what system we use. Just get this crap over with.
10-14-2014, 07:25 PM
#7713
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2009
Position: Captain CR7/CR9
Posts: 104
Dang were still arguing the PBS v PBS v. No PBS.
I am CRJ. I voted against our current PBS when it was put to the group for ratification. I did so because of how much I thought it would suck for reserves. I was a fairly senior FO at the time but I wanted to upgrade and there were areas I didn't like in the reserve rules. I'm a reserve captain now and have been for quite some time now and I still don't like some of what we have to put up with as reserves. I have made my feelings know to my representation but they don't really seem to care so long as line holders arent affected.
Well that's not 100% fair as they have made some small improvements. They just don't seem interested in spending any negotiating capital to improve the lives of the 25 to 30 percent of pilots who suffer on reserve. I have only experienced our PBS as a senior bidder and a junior bidder. For a senior bidde it is great by the way. Never needed to tweak anything. I would bid what I want and I got what I bid.
But I digress. I do that sometimes. Sucks on reserve but reserve sucks no matter how you bid.
When we were put into this merger situation, by no fault of any of us flying the line, we had PBS ands the ERJ had line bidding. The line bidding looks great. I'd take it over what we have in a hot second. If we could adopt the ERJ system in its entirety with all of its work rules and even with its flaws, id vote yes in a second. It is way more lucrative and pilot friendly best I can tell.
We aren't going to get to do that. The company won't go for it. I don't think there is any thing we can do to get that into a JCBA, not that a JCBA will ever happen. Even if we do get one, I believe PBS is inevitable. It has become the industry standard.
This brings me to my question. And before I go to far, I'm not trying to argue erj v crj here. Not my pbs is better than yours. But it strikes me as odd the the ERJ group was no pbs when we started. Then as time goes on the ERJ side decided to go with PBS but only the pref bid system. Those of you on the ERJ side have the most experience with the bad things about PBS via the CAL PBS system. I'm told that the pref bid system is similar in all the ways the CAL system was bad.
So my question, finally, is why do you guys want this pref bid system so badly? Why are you so dead set against flight line? I'm being serious here and willing to be educated on the prefbid system. If it looks better, you will have a convert.
Or is the push for prefbid a tactic to make sure neither side will ever vote yes. A poison pill if you will. I'm not saying this is the case and for the love of god we need to get on the same page and work together. I am not a divider/ rabble rouser. Just asking the question and am seriously interested in what the ERJ guys think of pref bid.
Sorry about the return to PBS but it seems a valid point of discussion seeing as we are stuck on it yet again.
I am CRJ. I voted against our current PBS when it was put to the group for ratification. I did so because of how much I thought it would suck for reserves. I was a fairly senior FO at the time but I wanted to upgrade and there were areas I didn't like in the reserve rules. I'm a reserve captain now and have been for quite some time now and I still don't like some of what we have to put up with as reserves. I have made my feelings know to my representation but they don't really seem to care so long as line holders arent affected.
Well that's not 100% fair as they have made some small improvements. They just don't seem interested in spending any negotiating capital to improve the lives of the 25 to 30 percent of pilots who suffer on reserve. I have only experienced our PBS as a senior bidder and a junior bidder. For a senior bidde it is great by the way. Never needed to tweak anything. I would bid what I want and I got what I bid.
But I digress. I do that sometimes. Sucks on reserve but reserve sucks no matter how you bid.
When we were put into this merger situation, by no fault of any of us flying the line, we had PBS ands the ERJ had line bidding. The line bidding looks great. I'd take it over what we have in a hot second. If we could adopt the ERJ system in its entirety with all of its work rules and even with its flaws, id vote yes in a second. It is way more lucrative and pilot friendly best I can tell.
We aren't going to get to do that. The company won't go for it. I don't think there is any thing we can do to get that into a JCBA, not that a JCBA will ever happen. Even if we do get one, I believe PBS is inevitable. It has become the industry standard.
This brings me to my question. And before I go to far, I'm not trying to argue erj v crj here. Not my pbs is better than yours. But it strikes me as odd the the ERJ group was no pbs when we started. Then as time goes on the ERJ side decided to go with PBS but only the pref bid system. Those of you on the ERJ side have the most experience with the bad things about PBS via the CAL PBS system. I'm told that the pref bid system is similar in all the ways the CAL system was bad.
So my question, finally, is why do you guys want this pref bid system so badly? Why are you so dead set against flight line? I'm being serious here and willing to be educated on the prefbid system. If it looks better, you will have a convert.
Or is the push for prefbid a tactic to make sure neither side will ever vote yes. A poison pill if you will. I'm not saying this is the case and for the love of god we need to get on the same page and work together. I am not a divider/ rabble rouser. Just asking the question and am seriously interested in what the ERJ guys think of pref bid.
Sorry about the return to PBS but it seems a valid point of discussion seeing as we are stuck on it yet again.
10-14-2014, 08:27 PM
#7714
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Position: EMB 145 FO
Posts: 65
Dang were still arguing the PBS v PBS v. No PBS.
I am CRJ. I voted against our current PBS when it was put to the group for ratification. I did so because of how much I thought it would suck for reserves. I was a fairly senior FO at the time but I wanted to upgrade and there were areas I didn't like in the reserve rules. I'm a reserve captain now and have been for quite some time now and I still don't like some of what we have to put up with as reserves. I have made my feelings know to my representation but they don't really seem to care so long as line holders arent affected.
Well that's not 100% fair as they have made some small improvements. They just don't seem interested in spending any negotiating capital to improve the lives of the 25 to 30 percent of pilots who suffer on reserve. I have only experienced our PBS as a senior bidder and a junior bidder. For a senior bidde it is great by the way. Never needed to tweak anything. I would bid what I want and I got what I bid.
But I digress. I do that sometimes. Sucks on reserve but reserve sucks no matter how you bid.
When we were put into this merger situation, by no fault of any of us flying the line, we had PBS ands the ERJ had line bidding. The line bidding looks great. I'd take it over what we have in a hot second. If we could adopt the ERJ system in its entirety with all of its work rules and even with its flaws, id vote yes in a second. It is way more lucrative and pilot friendly best I can tell.
We aren't going to get to do that. The company won't go for it. I don't think there is any thing we can do to get that into a JCBA, not that a JCBA will ever happen. Even if we do get one, I believe PBS is inevitable. It has become the industry standard.
This brings me to my question. And before I go to far, I'm not trying to argue erj v crj here. Not my pbs is better than yours. But it strikes me as odd the the ERJ group was no pbs when we started. Then as time goes on the ERJ side decided to go with PBS but only the pref bid system. Those of you on the ERJ side have the most experience with the bad things about PBS via the CAL PBS system. I'm told that the pref bid system is similar in all the ways the CAL system was bad.
So my question, finally, is why do you guys want this pref bid system so badly? Why are you so dead set against flight line? I'm being serious here and willing to be educated on the prefbid system. If it looks better, you will have a convert.
Or is the push for prefbid a tactic to make sure neither side will ever vote yes. A poison pill if you will. I'm not saying this is the case and for the love of god we need to get on the same page and work together. I am not a divider/ rabble rouser. Just asking the question and am seriously interested in what the ERJ guys think of pref bid.
Sorry about the return to PBS but it seems a valid point of discussion seeing as we are stuck on it yet again.
I am CRJ. I voted against our current PBS when it was put to the group for ratification. I did so because of how much I thought it would suck for reserves. I was a fairly senior FO at the time but I wanted to upgrade and there were areas I didn't like in the reserve rules. I'm a reserve captain now and have been for quite some time now and I still don't like some of what we have to put up with as reserves. I have made my feelings know to my representation but they don't really seem to care so long as line holders arent affected.
Well that's not 100% fair as they have made some small improvements. They just don't seem interested in spending any negotiating capital to improve the lives of the 25 to 30 percent of pilots who suffer on reserve. I have only experienced our PBS as a senior bidder and a junior bidder. For a senior bidde it is great by the way. Never needed to tweak anything. I would bid what I want and I got what I bid.
But I digress. I do that sometimes. Sucks on reserve but reserve sucks no matter how you bid.
When we were put into this merger situation, by no fault of any of us flying the line, we had PBS ands the ERJ had line bidding. The line bidding looks great. I'd take it over what we have in a hot second. If we could adopt the ERJ system in its entirety with all of its work rules and even with its flaws, id vote yes in a second. It is way more lucrative and pilot friendly best I can tell.
We aren't going to get to do that. The company won't go for it. I don't think there is any thing we can do to get that into a JCBA, not that a JCBA will ever happen. Even if we do get one, I believe PBS is inevitable. It has become the industry standard.
This brings me to my question. And before I go to far, I'm not trying to argue erj v crj here. Not my pbs is better than yours. But it strikes me as odd the the ERJ group was no pbs when we started. Then as time goes on the ERJ side decided to go with PBS but only the pref bid system. Those of you on the ERJ side have the most experience with the bad things about PBS via the CAL PBS system. I'm told that the pref bid system is similar in all the ways the CAL system was bad.
So my question, finally, is why do you guys want this pref bid system so badly? Why are you so dead set against flight line? I'm being serious here and willing to be educated on the prefbid system. If it looks better, you will have a convert.
Or is the push for prefbid a tactic to make sure neither side will ever vote yes. A poison pill if you will. I'm not saying this is the case and for the love of god we need to get on the same page and work together. I am not a divider/ rabble rouser. Just asking the question and am seriously interested in what the ERJ guys think of pref bid.
Sorry about the return to PBS but it seems a valid point of discussion seeing as we are stuck on it yet again.
10-14-2014, 08:43 PM
#7715
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: CRJ200 Capt.
Posts: 822
I am by no means the voice of the ERJ side but most of us don't care what vendor we use, we just want good work rules. It would be great if we could see both systems in action but that won't ever happen. I know this is hard to believe but our MEC is very out of touch with our pilot group on this issue so don't confuse their stubbornness with how the majority of us actually feel.
10-15-2014, 05:39 AM
#7716
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: CRJ
Posts: 419
To make a long story short, they told me that the the ERJ side has been very difficult to work with and down right unprofessional and nasty at times during negotiations. Way more then just differences of opinion. Now, of course they wouldn't implement themselves in any such behavior, but that's what they told me. ERJ MEC wants the system they are looking at because it saves the company millions of dollars so that they can keep the so called "out liers". This will have a very costly impact on the ASA pilots QOL because of that PBS they want as been discussed over and over again here. They told me that since the ERJ side does not have the benefits we have with our PBS system and they have never used anything but line bidding before, they don't care about what we have and what they don't. Basically, they won't miss it because they never had it. So they want to sacrifice ASA pilots QOL (and ERJ pilots too if you ask me), so they can keep some other things that won't be worth it if your PBS system blows and your life is miserable because your schedule sucks. So that's why we are on this again. They can't figure this out, and we are suffering because of it. And you should care about it, I do. My job and quality of life depend on it. IF you don't care and you are an ERJ pilot, you should tell your reps that so we can go with our PBS, move on, and get this **** over with
10-15-2014, 06:41 AM
#7717
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Posts: 401
I agree 100%. We are losing because they can't get along. However, I am confident that our (ASA) side is looking out for our side. I've spoken to them recently. I put out a long rant about how I didn't trust them and sent some emails. They were very forth coming and willing to talk to me. They definitely changed my mind and cam forth with some info. I was grateful for them taking the time to talk to me.
To make a long story short, they told me that the the ERJ side has been very difficult to work with and down right unprofessional and nasty at times during negotiations. Way more then just differences of opinion. Now, of course they wouldn't implement themselves in any such behavior, but that's what they told me. ERJ MEC wants the system they are looking at because it saves the company millions of dollars so that they can keep the so called "out liers". This will have a very costly impact on the ASA pilots QOL because of that PBS they want as been discussed over and over again here. They told me that since the ERJ side does not have the benefits we have with our PBS system and they have never used anything but line bidding before, they don't care about what we have and what they don't. Basically, they won't miss it because they never had it. So they want to sacrifice ASA pilots QOL (and ERJ pilots too if you ask me), so they can keep some other things that won't be worth it if your PBS system blows and your life is miserable because your schedule sucks. So that's why we are on this again. They can't figure this out, and we are suffering because of it. And you should care about it, I do. My job and quality of life depend on it. IF you don't care and you are an ERJ pilot, you should tell your reps that so we can go with our PBS, move on, and get this **** over with
To make a long story short, they told me that the the ERJ side has been very difficult to work with and down right unprofessional and nasty at times during negotiations. Way more then just differences of opinion. Now, of course they wouldn't implement themselves in any such behavior, but that's what they told me. ERJ MEC wants the system they are looking at because it saves the company millions of dollars so that they can keep the so called "out liers". This will have a very costly impact on the ASA pilots QOL because of that PBS they want as been discussed over and over again here. They told me that since the ERJ side does not have the benefits we have with our PBS system and they have never used anything but line bidding before, they don't care about what we have and what they don't. Basically, they won't miss it because they never had it. So they want to sacrifice ASA pilots QOL (and ERJ pilots too if you ask me), so they can keep some other things that won't be worth it if your PBS system blows and your life is miserable because your schedule sucks. So that's why we are on this again. They can't figure this out, and we are suffering because of it. And you should care about it, I do. My job and quality of life depend on it. IF you don't care and you are an ERJ pilot, you should tell your reps that so we can go with our PBS, move on, and get this **** over with
10-15-2014, 09:08 AM
#7719
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Posts: 200
To my ERJ brothers and sisters,
The one thing and only thing you should look at regarding Flight Line PBS is. Management don't want LASA to have it. You have to ask yourself why? The reason is FL PBS gives us so much freedom to do want we want with our schedules. Management HATES that we have that much control of our lives. Management wants SP PBS because they have learned from their mistakes and now know how to fix the language so they have more CONTROL.
701EV
The one thing and only thing you should look at regarding Flight Line PBS is. Management don't want LASA to have it. You have to ask yourself why? The reason is FL PBS gives us so much freedom to do want we want with our schedules. Management HATES that we have that much control of our lives. Management wants SP PBS because they have learned from their mistakes and now know how to fix the language so they have more CONTROL.
701EV
10-15-2014, 09:10 AM
#7720
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: A few
Posts: 166
It's funny because XJT ALPA is saying something different. I've read a couple of these guys the riot act and they have been pretty forthcoming as well. I'm not sure where this outlier stuff comes from, but they stated in an LEC meeting that our LTD is not going to exist in its current form. It's flat out too expensive to put the combined group on it. What I think they are trying to save is the 401K DC. Which is good for all of us. We all need to remember to believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see. The truth is usually somewhere in the middle. At least our performance is getting better. That can't be bad.
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