What's the Latest at ASA/Expressjet?
08-12-2012, 10:08 PM
#791
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Bus Driver
Posts: 125
Originally Posted by newarkblows
This is the brainwashing coming out of the ASA mec that is perfectly willing to give away whatever negotiating leverage they have. The company can and will make money off of us and management will be compensated well for their time. Why are we the ones fighting for pennies and being abused by poor contract language? Pay rates mean nothing if the work rules aren't there and this negotiation is a two way street. Your mentality of play ball or we upset mom is exactly why the pilot whipshaw continues. No backbone or knowledge of how to negotiate.
08-13-2012, 06:26 AM
#792
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2012
Posts: 126
Originally Posted by ysslah
65 hours of min line credit I think.
Originally Posted by Vertisch
Minus the 28 you get from vacation so you need to find 37 hours from pairings.
Originally Posted by Hoser
If you want an excellent PBS guide get ahold of Russ Vaugh's Q&A guide. It's on the ALPA web board under PBS.
Hoser
Hoser
08-13-2012, 06:30 AM
#793
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2012
Posts: 126
Originally Posted by skigambia
it's a different game now.
08-13-2012, 06:49 AM
#794
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Position: Catching breathe
Posts: 240
Originally Posted by Leroy Smith
Thank you.
Thank you.
And thank you. I havent seen him in a while to pick his brain about this stuff.
Thank you.
And thank you. I havent seen him in a while to pick his brain about this stuff.
08-13-2012, 10:15 AM
#795
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 7ER B...whatever that means.
Posts: 3,966
This has been stewing and simmering and bothering me over the last few years, and this isn't just an ASA/XJT thing but: somehow, somewhere along the line management was able to brainwash every airline employee in America into thinking that their paycheck was the difference between a profit and a loss; the difference between a sustainable operation and a catastrophic shutdown. Now, while that was going on, management pay and benefits, especially at the upper echelons, has skyrocketed to many many many times what your average rank and file employee takes home. And what does that premium get you? Destructive mergers and revolving-door bankruptcies. My issues with this are twofold:
1.) One only has to look at Southwest, FedEx, Delta and any of the large, established foreign carriers to see that this is total BS. Your paycheck is NOT the difference between a profit and and loss.
2.) IF employee compensation is part of the problem, lets take a top-down approach. Cutting pay 2-6% from the top is like cutting pay 50-60% at the bottom. So rather than coming after my pay and benefits with a cleaver, why not go after those at the top with a paring knife?
Now, I think the blame rests squarely in OUR laps for allowing this group-think to fester and perpetuate itself in this industry since deregulation. Fool us once, shame on you. Fool us for 40 years, well... The reality is that truly sustainable profitability can only be had from organizational efficiencies. Again, look at the most consistently profitable companies both inside this industry and out. They aren't profitable because they pay their people chump change. They are profitable because they are EFFICIENT. Without getting specific, I think we can all agree that current tactics used by managements do nothing to foster willingness among employees to operate efficiently. So what I say to management is this: Only through efficiency is there profitability. Motivate me to be efficient. The first step towards that end is to keep your grubby mitts off my meager paycheck! What I would say to employees is this: Only when we stop being the low-hanging fruit will the cycle be broken.
1.) One only has to look at Southwest, FedEx, Delta and any of the large, established foreign carriers to see that this is total BS. Your paycheck is NOT the difference between a profit and and loss.
2.) IF employee compensation is part of the problem, lets take a top-down approach. Cutting pay 2-6% from the top is like cutting pay 50-60% at the bottom. So rather than coming after my pay and benefits with a cleaver, why not go after those at the top with a paring knife?
Now, I think the blame rests squarely in OUR laps for allowing this group-think to fester and perpetuate itself in this industry since deregulation. Fool us once, shame on you. Fool us for 40 years, well... The reality is that truly sustainable profitability can only be had from organizational efficiencies. Again, look at the most consistently profitable companies both inside this industry and out. They aren't profitable because they pay their people chump change. They are profitable because they are EFFICIENT. Without getting specific, I think we can all agree that current tactics used by managements do nothing to foster willingness among employees to operate efficiently. So what I say to management is this: Only through efficiency is there profitability. Motivate me to be efficient. The first step towards that end is to keep your grubby mitts off my meager paycheck! What I would say to employees is this: Only when we stop being the low-hanging fruit will the cycle be broken.
Last edited by freezingflyboy; 08-13-2012 at 10:34 AM.
08-13-2012, 10:55 AM
#796
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2009
Posts: 61
Originally Posted by freezingflyboy
This has been stewing and simmering and bothering me over the last few years, and this isn't just an ASA/XJT thing but: somehow, somewhere along the line management was able to brainwash every airline employee in America into thinking that their paycheck was the difference between a profit and a loss; the difference between a sustainable operation and a catastrophic shutdown. Now, while that was going on, management pay and benefits, especially at the upper echelons, has skyrocketed to many many many times what your average rank and file employee takes home. And what does that premium get you? Destructive mergers and revolving-door bankruptcies. My issues with this are twofold:
1.) One only has to look at Southwest, FedEx, Delta and any of the large, established foreign carriers to see that this is total BS. Your paycheck is NOT the difference between a profit and and loss.
2.) IF employee compensation is part of the problem, lets take a top-down approach. Cutting pay 2-6% from the top is like cutting pay 50-60% at the bottom. So rather than coming after my pay and benefits with a cleaver, why not go after those at the top with a paring knife?
Now, I think the blame rests squarely in OUR laps for allowing this group-think to fester and perpetuate itself in this industry since deregulation. Fool us once, shame on you. Fool us for 40 years, well... The reality is that truly sustainable profitability can only be had from organizational efficiencies. Again, look at the most consistently profitable companies both inside this industry and out. They aren't profitable because they pay their people chump change. They are profitable because they are EFFICIENT. Without getting specific, I think we can all agree that current tactics used by managements do nothing to foster willingness among employees to operate efficiently. So what I say to management is this: Only through efficiency is there profitability. Motivate me to be efficient. The first step towards that end is to keep your grubby mitts off my meager paycheck! What I would say to employees is this: Only when we stop being the low-hanging fruit will the cycle be broken.
1.) One only has to look at Southwest, FedEx, Delta and any of the large, established foreign carriers to see that this is total BS. Your paycheck is NOT the difference between a profit and and loss.
2.) IF employee compensation is part of the problem, lets take a top-down approach. Cutting pay 2-6% from the top is like cutting pay 50-60% at the bottom. So rather than coming after my pay and benefits with a cleaver, why not go after those at the top with a paring knife?
Now, I think the blame rests squarely in OUR laps for allowing this group-think to fester and perpetuate itself in this industry since deregulation. Fool us once, shame on you. Fool us for 40 years, well... The reality is that truly sustainable profitability can only be had from organizational efficiencies. Again, look at the most consistently profitable companies both inside this industry and out. They aren't profitable because they pay their people chump change. They are profitable because they are EFFICIENT. Without getting specific, I think we can all agree that current tactics used by managements do nothing to foster willingness among employees to operate efficiently. So what I say to management is this: Only through efficiency is there profitability. Motivate me to be efficient. The first step towards that end is to keep your grubby mitts off my meager paycheck! What I would say to employees is this: Only when we stop being the low-hanging fruit will the cycle be broken.
08-13-2012, 11:06 AM
#797
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: UniCal 737 FO
Posts: 413
Originally Posted by MaxPowerSet
I nominate this for Post of the Century... Could not agree more, I'm tempted to copy and paste this to every thread that even hints that we ask for too much as pilots.
08-13-2012, 11:09 AM
#798
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: UniCal 737 FO
Posts: 413
Originally Posted by newarkblows
This is the brainwashing coming out of the ASA mec that is perfectly willing to give away whatever negotiating leverage they have. The company can and will make money off of us and management will be compensated well for their time. Why are we the ones fighting for pennies and being abused by poor contract language? Pay rates mean nothing if the work rules aren't there and this negotiation is a two way street. Your mentality of play ball or we upset mom is exactly why the pilot whipshaw continues. No backbone or knowledge of how to negotiate.
08-13-2012, 03:48 PM
#799
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2007
Posts: 389
Originally Posted by freezingflyboy
This has been stewing and simmering and bothering me over the last few years, and this isn't just an ASA/XJT thing but: somehow, somewhere along the line management was able to brainwash every airline employee in America into thinking that their paycheck was the difference between a profit and a loss; the difference between a sustainable operation and a catastrophic shutdown. Now, while that was going on, management pay and benefits, especially at the upper echelons, has skyrocketed to many many many times what your average rank and file employee takes home. And what does that premium get you? Destructive mergers and revolving-door bankruptcies. My issues with this are twofold:
1.) One only has to look at Southwest, FedEx, Delta and any of the large, established foreign carriers to see that this is total BS. Your paycheck is NOT the difference between a profit and and loss.
2.) IF employee compensation is part of the problem, lets take a top-down approach. Cutting pay 2-6% from the top is like cutting pay 50-60% at the bottom. So rather than coming after my pay and benefits with a cleaver, why not go after those at the top with a paring knife?
Now, I think the blame rests squarely in OUR laps for allowing this group-think to fester and perpetuate itself in this industry since deregulation. Fool us once, shame on you. Fool us for 40 years, well... The reality is that truly sustainable profitability can only be had from organizational efficiencies. Again, look at the most consistently profitable companies both inside this industry and out. They aren't profitable because they pay their people chump change. They are profitable because they are EFFICIENT. Without getting specific, I think we can all agree that current tactics used by managements do nothing to foster willingness among employees to operate efficiently. So what I say to management is this: Only through efficiency is there profitability. Motivate me to be efficient. The first step towards that end is to keep your grubby mitts off my meager paycheck! What I would say to employees is this: Only when we stop being the low-hanging fruit will the cycle be broken.
1.) One only has to look at Southwest, FedEx, Delta and any of the large, established foreign carriers to see that this is total BS. Your paycheck is NOT the difference between a profit and and loss.
2.) IF employee compensation is part of the problem, lets take a top-down approach. Cutting pay 2-6% from the top is like cutting pay 50-60% at the bottom. So rather than coming after my pay and benefits with a cleaver, why not go after those at the top with a paring knife?
Now, I think the blame rests squarely in OUR laps for allowing this group-think to fester and perpetuate itself in this industry since deregulation. Fool us once, shame on you. Fool us for 40 years, well... The reality is that truly sustainable profitability can only be had from organizational efficiencies. Again, look at the most consistently profitable companies both inside this industry and out. They aren't profitable because they pay their people chump change. They are profitable because they are EFFICIENT. Without getting specific, I think we can all agree that current tactics used by managements do nothing to foster willingness among employees to operate efficiently. So what I say to management is this: Only through efficiency is there profitability. Motivate me to be efficient. The first step towards that end is to keep your grubby mitts off my meager paycheck! What I would say to employees is this: Only when we stop being the low-hanging fruit will the cycle be broken.
With roughly 4400 pilots at ExpressJet, and an additional 3200 at SkyWest, a 50% pay cut for all pilots would be about $190,000,000 per year. (based on an average salary of $50,000 per year; a low estimate according to the average salary of our pilots on google)
The only published record I could find was of the top 5 highest paid executives and that number was $3,650,000 combined (not total salary, but total compensation including stock options)
If there were another 200 "Top Executives" making $200,000 per year (which I don't believe is the case) that would be another $40,000,000. If this entire group of the top 205 were to take a 6% pay cut, that would only total $2,600,000 in cuts. That is a far cry from the $190,000,000 from the pilot group.
I understand your post was mostly to drive home a point, but using make-believe numbers to prove your point only degrades the validity of your argument.
08-13-2012, 06:23 PM
#800
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: Grounded
Posts: 451
Originally Posted by Av8rking
While this an excellent post overall, and it brings up many problems with the private sector as a whole and our plight in the current environment, I'm afraid your analogy of cutting the tops pay by 2-6% compared to our pay by 50-60% is grossly inaccurate. Since Skywest Inc. is a public company, all the higher ups pay and total compensation is viewable with a quick google search.
With roughly 4400 pilots at ExpressJet, and an additional 3200 at SkyWest, a 50% pay cut for all pilots would be about $190,000,000 per year. (based on an average salary of $50,000 per year; a low estimate according to the average salary of our pilots on google)
The only published record I could find was of the top 5 highest paid executives and that number was $3,650,000 combined (not total salary, but total compensation including stock options)
If there were another 200 "Top Executives" making $200,000 per year (which I don't believe is the case) that would be another $40,000,000. If this entire group of the top 205 were to take a 6% pay cut, that would only total $2,600,000 in cuts. That is a far cry from the $190,000,000 from the pilot group.
I understand your post was mostly to drive home a point, but using make-believe numbers to prove your point only degrades the validity of your argument.
With roughly 4400 pilots at ExpressJet, and an additional 3200 at SkyWest, a 50% pay cut for all pilots would be about $190,000,000 per year. (based on an average salary of $50,000 per year; a low estimate according to the average salary of our pilots on google)
The only published record I could find was of the top 5 highest paid executives and that number was $3,650,000 combined (not total salary, but total compensation including stock options)
If there were another 200 "Top Executives" making $200,000 per year (which I don't believe is the case) that would be another $40,000,000. If this entire group of the top 205 were to take a 6% pay cut, that would only total $2,600,000 in cuts. That is a far cry from the $190,000,000 from the pilot group.
I understand your post was mostly to drive home a point, but using make-believe numbers to prove your point only degrades the validity of your argument.
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