Overage/Sub/OTP FCIF
04-14-2019, 07:17 AM
#11
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Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 98
Originally Posted by Adlerdriver
Just for OTP education, is it correct to say that you get pay protected for the trip that gets dropped at 100%. Then, when you use your OTP hours at some point in the future, you technically earn the extra 25% resulting in the advertised 125% pay? I’ve never been clear on how the OTP pay really happens.
When you pickup a trip via OTP, you get paid for it the following month just as if it was a makeup trip, except at 125%. The pay which you received for the "pay protected" trip gets deducted the third bid month (if I remember correctly) after the trip occurred whether you use your OTP hours or not. You can actually see it deducted in your Pay Summary for that month after you make your selection. One strategy to counter this and keep your pay somewhat normal is to makeup/use your OTP hours the previous month so you have a net gain of the 25% difference the month the deduct the money.
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04-14-2019, 07:41 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 936
Let’s say you are doing a string of day hub turn. You are in Atl waiting for the night shift to make it in. Whoops, equipment change, your pairing revised to go home tomorrow. When you land you have 30 minutes to elect overage instead of Sub. Your pay will be 3 hours more than the captains who didn’t believe you.
04-14-2019, 07:44 AM
#13
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Joined APC: Aug 2013
Posts: 93
Originally Posted by Adlerdriver
I meant that I had already worked as much as I wanted to work and did not have the scheduling flexibility to use the OTP in the current month.
Yes, this is how I interpreted the situation, so it didn’t seem like OTP would benefit me.
Just for OTP education, is it correct to say that you get pay protected for the trip that gets dropped at 100%. Then, when you use your OTP hours at some point in the future, you technically earn the extra 25% resulting in the advertised 125% pay? I’ve never been clear on how the OTP pay really happens.
Yes, this is how I interpreted the situation, so it didn’t seem like OTP would benefit me.
Just for OTP education, is it correct to say that you get pay protected for the trip that gets dropped at 100%. Then, when you use your OTP hours at some point in the future, you technically earn the extra 25% resulting in the advertised 125% pay? I’ve never been clear on how the OTP pay really happens.
So you will get paid as you flew the trip. 3 months later you will have the hours deducted. Pay summery will show -X hours at the top.
You will see in your OTP(same as PMU) bank the X hours. You will get 125% for those hours flown, and will be able to go -6(the -6 at straight pay) in that bank. With that in mind, if you don't have much in your make up bank choosing sub does give you the option of -6 hours in the OTP bank.
Why we don't have cancellation pay like every regional airline is crazy. Makes 0 sense, but it is what it is. IMHO, OTP is the only option when put in Sub as a commuter.
04-14-2019, 08:37 AM
#15
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Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 2,099
Originally Posted by SwaggerJack
Section 69.1.a. of the contract should read "If a trip you are currently on extends into a subsequent trip, the subsequent trip shall be removed from the pilot's calendar with pay, PERIOD.
What he said.
04-14-2019, 09:01 AM
#16
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Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 98
Originally Posted by SwaggerJack
Section 69.1.a. of the contract should read "If a trip you are currently on extends into a subsequent trip, the subsequent trip shall be removed from the pilot's calendar with pay, PERIOD.
Yup.
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04-14-2019, 09:05 AM
#17
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Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: 757 Capt
Posts: 2,418
Originally Posted by SwaggerJack
Section 69.1.a. of the contract should read "If a trip you are currently on extends into a subsequent trip, the subsequent trip shall be removed from the pilot's calendar with pay, PERIOD.
What you Don't get is all of the Overage, at 150% for your original trip. Only get Overage for the period of Time you're not on a pay status.
In general, if your Revision will have you getting back to Memphis 12 hours late, then either choosing OTP or Declining SUB outright will get you more money-especially if there's an EDP involved there. (EG-you show at 9 for the leg to Memphis only to learn the plane's hard down, parts +2 and the part is scheduled to arrive around 5AM....so, CRS sends you back to the hotel for 9'sh hours with an AM HSBY. Plane's fixed at 8 AM and CRS calls you up to return you to Memphis. You'd get about 4 hours at 150%, another 1.5CH for the HSBY, and 3.5CH for the extra duty period.
OR, you could've stayed in SUB knowing the Company can't possibly use you since you're still on a trip and collected the 6 hours for the conflicted trip.
OR...just in case they fix the plane early, you can Wait to Decline SUB until you block-in after returning to Memphis. Or when you wake up the next morning and know you'll come out ahead with the Overage.
OR, after you get back to the hotel at 11 and have a quick cocktail you could opt for OTP which would still be prior to your Conflicted Trips showtime...would act as insurance to a quick fix or CRS change of the Mind Revision 2
04-14-2019, 09:34 AM
#18
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Joined APC: Aug 2013
Posts: 93
Originally Posted by kronan
You DO get paid for the trip, PERIOD...that's what the Default Option is. Remain in Substitution.
What you Don't get is all of the Overage, at 150% for your original trip. Only get Overage for the period of Time you're not on a pay status.
In general, if your Revision will have you getting back to Memphis 12 hours late, then either choosing OTP or Declining SUB outright will get you more money-especially if there's an EDP involved there. (EG-you show at 9 for the leg to Memphis only to learn the plane's hard down, parts +2 and the part is scheduled to arrive around 5AM....so, CRS sends you back to the hotel for 9'sh hours with an AM HSBY. Plane's fixed at 8 AM and CRS calls you up to return you to Memphis. You'd get about 4 hours at 150%, another 1.5CH for the HSBY, and 3.5CH for the extra duty period.
OR, you could've stayed in SUB knowing the Company can't possibly use you since you're still on a trip and collected the 6 hours for the conflicted trip.
OR...just in case they fix the plane early, you can Wait to Decline SUB until you block-in after returning to Memphis. Or when you wake up the next morning and know you'll come out ahead with the Overage.
OR, after you get back to the hotel at 11 and have a quick cocktail you could opt for OTP which would still be prior to your Conflicted Trips showtime...would act as insurance to a quick fix or CRS change of the Mind Revision 2
What you Don't get is all of the Overage, at 150% for your original trip. Only get Overage for the period of Time you're not on a pay status.
In general, if your Revision will have you getting back to Memphis 12 hours late, then either choosing OTP or Declining SUB outright will get you more money-especially if there's an EDP involved there. (EG-you show at 9 for the leg to Memphis only to learn the plane's hard down, parts +2 and the part is scheduled to arrive around 5AM....so, CRS sends you back to the hotel for 9'sh hours with an AM HSBY. Plane's fixed at 8 AM and CRS calls you up to return you to Memphis. You'd get about 4 hours at 150%, another 1.5CH for the HSBY, and 3.5CH for the extra duty period.
OR, you could've stayed in SUB knowing the Company can't possibly use you since you're still on a trip and collected the 6 hours for the conflicted trip.
OR...just in case they fix the plane early, you can Wait to Decline SUB until you block-in after returning to Memphis. Or when you wake up the next morning and know you'll come out ahead with the Overage.
OR, after you get back to the hotel at 11 and have a quick cocktail you could opt for OTP which would still be prior to your Conflicted Trips showtime...would act as insurance to a quick fix or CRS change of the Mind Revision 2
Do you know what cancelation pay is?
Also, neat story with that plane breaking and overage. My trip in 2 weeks just canceled and I'm now in sub. Now what?? Just pay me and let me live my life and not be on the hook.
04-14-2019, 09:36 AM
#19
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Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 2,099
Originally Posted by kronan
You DO get paid for the trip, PERIOD...that's what the Default Option is. Remain in Substitution.
What you Don't get is all of the Overage, at 150% for your original trip. Only get Overage for the period of Time you're not on a pay status.
In general, if your Revision will have you getting back to Memphis 12 hours late, then either choosing OTP or Declining SUB outright will get you more money-especially if there's an EDP involved there. (EG-you show at 9 for the leg to Memphis only to learn the plane's hard down, parts +2 and the part is scheduled to arrive around 5AM....so, CRS sends you back to the hotel for 9'sh hours with an AM HSBY. Plane's fixed at 8 AM and CRS calls you up to return you to Memphis. You'd get about 4 hours at 150%, another 1.5CH for the HSBY, and 3.5CH for the extra duty period.
OR, you could've stayed in SUB knowing the Company can't possibly use you since you're still on a trip and collected the 6 hours for the conflicted trip.
OR...just in case they fix the plane early, you can Wait to Decline SUB until you block-in after returning to Memphis. Or when you wake up the next morning and know you'll come out ahead with the Overage.
OR, after you get back to the hotel at 11 and have a quick cocktail you could opt for OTP which would still be prior to your Conflicted Trips showtime...would act as insurance to a quick fix or CRS change of the Mind Revision 2
What you Don't get is all of the Overage, at 150% for your original trip. Only get Overage for the period of Time you're not on a pay status.
In general, if your Revision will have you getting back to Memphis 12 hours late, then either choosing OTP or Declining SUB outright will get you more money-especially if there's an EDP involved there. (EG-you show at 9 for the leg to Memphis only to learn the plane's hard down, parts +2 and the part is scheduled to arrive around 5AM....so, CRS sends you back to the hotel for 9'sh hours with an AM HSBY. Plane's fixed at 8 AM and CRS calls you up to return you to Memphis. You'd get about 4 hours at 150%, another 1.5CH for the HSBY, and 3.5CH for the extra duty period.
OR, you could've stayed in SUB knowing the Company can't possibly use you since you're still on a trip and collected the 6 hours for the conflicted trip.
OR...just in case they fix the plane early, you can Wait to Decline SUB until you block-in after returning to Memphis. Or when you wake up the next morning and know you'll come out ahead with the Overage.
OR, after you get back to the hotel at 11 and have a quick cocktail you could opt for OTP which would still be prior to your Conflicted Trips showtime...would act as insurance to a quick fix or CRS change of the Mind Revision 2
Or get paid for the current trip with overages and get cancellation pay for the next trip.
That would be a lot easier if we have it in the next contract.
04-14-2019, 10:04 AM
#20
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 767 Captain
Posts: 3,988
Okay - PhD level stuff now.
Your TAFB trip gets extended into your next trip which is completely covered by the footprint of the extended trip.
Say there are exactly 24 hours between the trips. That 6.4 CH worth of time between trips is going to be paid at 150% as overage even if you choose SUB. You just don't get any of the overage that occurs after the SUB trip starts.
However - "Overage" is specifically defined in the section 4 BB of the contract and has nothing to do with disruptions (other than they often occur simultaneously). So, my question is:
Without getting into the details of good or bad choices in my example - If you elect SUB and had two extra duty periods and two extra landings on your revised trip that occurred "under" the footprint of the SUB, would you get paid for those? They're not technically "overage", they're disruptions. It seems like you would get paid for those and just give up the true overage pay that falls under the SUB trip footprint, but maybe I'm reading too much into it.
Your TAFB trip gets extended into your next trip which is completely covered by the footprint of the extended trip.
Say there are exactly 24 hours between the trips. That 6.4 CH worth of time between trips is going to be paid at 150% as overage even if you choose SUB. You just don't get any of the overage that occurs after the SUB trip starts.
However - "Overage" is specifically defined in the section 4 BB of the contract and has nothing to do with disruptions (other than they often occur simultaneously). So, my question is:
Without getting into the details of good or bad choices in my example - If you elect SUB and had two extra duty periods and two extra landings on your revised trip that occurred "under" the footprint of the SUB, would you get paid for those? They're not technically "overage", they're disruptions. It seems like you would get paid for those and just give up the true overage pay that falls under the SUB trip footprint, but maybe I'm reading too much into it.
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