SWAcapt

I would recommend not getting into aviation to achieve a good paying job. Get into aviation only if you have a passion for it. If you have that passion, you will work hard and be content that you have a flying job but will also have drive to excell. Even if you don't achieve your ultimae goal but are still flying, you will still be content. If you're just looking for a descent paying job, pick one that will allow you to be home every night. The average Air Traffic Controller now makes more than the average airline pilot. There is a shortage of pharmacists and they make about 80K but if you have the love of flying in your blood, then go for it.
I never achieved my ultimate goal that I set at 7 years old to be a Blue Angel, but am content that I did get to fly A6 Intuders off aircraft carriers. After leaving active duty, it took 4 years for me to get my airline job, but never once thought that I wouldn't make it. If flying is your goal, and you are truely driven by it, the money will follow and it will be enough, because you are flying. If making money or achieving a certain lifestyle are your goal, I feel that you will be very disappointed. I've enjoyed all of my 30 years of flying. Just my 2 cts.
Beyond content.

iflyjets4food

I agree 200%. There will be many many pilots who will tell you not to get into this business because you can't make any money. That is great advice for you if money is #1. The advice probably comes from someone who got into the business to get rich too. Flying is something you have to love to do. The world looks the same from the cockpit of a 747 or a Beech 1900 (although probably a lot less ocean views in the 1900). If you truly love it, you'll get where you want to be, and you'll be much happier along the way.

SkyHigh

You are right about being happy at work. If you are financially independent then good for you. I have noticed a direct connection between pilots who were financially secure outside of aviation and those who were trying to make it on just what they earned. I don't care who you are or what you do if you cant make a living out of it then nothing else matters. It is no fun to be poor or to live in a getto. Maslows Hierarchy of needs clearly shows how a persons happiness is linked to the satisfaction of the lower requirements of human life. We need to be safe and fed. Our bills need to be paid. That joyous view out the window turns to a troubled blank stare when you realize that you are riding a sinking ship. Career advancement is also important. In fact It is more important than money, so if you are stuck in the right seat for years and years then your satisfaction will dull. It sounds like you are a young pilot who is in your first real job. Enjoy it. In time your attitude might change. Remember at one time even Kill Bill was a happy young pilot.


SkyHigh

B767flyr

Go to medical school, then buy a cool airplane.

FOTGTD

its kinda of funny to listen to all the responses. this guy obviously wants to make a career out of flying. he didn't say i want to be a doctor, lawyer, policeman....but a pilot. everyone who is all ready a "pilot" keeps telling him to go elsewhere. some of us(like the rest of you) even if you won't admit it here enjoy the odd schedules, old FA's and all around madness that the airline lifestyle entails.

its easy to tell the kid "become a doctor and buy a cool airplane".......you sound a little like your father don't you? let him shoot for his dream even if yours never came true. most of us don't want a 9-5 in some office making small talk at the water cooler....even if it pays a little better.

BTW do you think firemen and policemen tell other applicants to go do something else just because the pay is low( especially firemen)

i say go for it....i did and have never been happier.....i went to college and became an RN and hated every minute of it. quit, started flying and haven't looked back since. could i have made more $ the first few years of nursing....you betcha', but then I would have never instructed in an airplane or flew the ditch or met so many miserable people.

B767flyr

Ok FOTGTD,

The "go to med school" comment was slightly tongue and cheek. slightly serious, but rooted in the reality of 11 years flying in the airline business.

You've never met my father, and that comment sounded nothing like him. He was a wise old fighter pilot that advised me to do what I love, so I did. My dream did come true--I flew in the Air Force.

A buddy of mine is a Lieutenant in a medium-sized municipal fire dept and makes over $70K/yr (more if he works overtime) with free medical, full retirement at age 55, and 20 days off/month. His dept has never filed ch 11 nor furloughed any of it's employees. Doesn't sound low paying to me, but I'm sure there are some FD/PDs that don't pay as much. Certain careers have certain pay commensurate with them, ours is in the process of being dumbed down by companies run and employed like a certain retail giant, with employees as willing accomplices thinking they're getting a swell deal. Cops and firefighters know what they're in for as far as pay and willingly accept it. If they don't like it, they can quit. You didn't like giving sponge baths so you quit...good call!!

The point of this is that just because it's the kids dream doesn't mean we should all wax romantic about the "love of flying", force feed him Kool-Aid, and tell him it's all good because he'll get to fly and do what he loves while his prospects for a family-supporting job with decent retirement are slim. RJ jobs are financially survivable when you're 25 and single. What about 45, married with kids going to college and a mortgage. I'm not far from that scenario and max RJ capt rates just wouldn't cut it. What about a capt seat at one of the LCCs with their retirements? Better save like crazy and hope the spouse has a good job with a retirement plan to back you up. What about Fedex, UPS, DHL? Lots of competition from furloughed pilots with thousands of air carrier hours. Good luck getting on with them when the hottest thing you flew was an RJ--good experience, but you'll be outgunned for years. Yes, people should pursue their dreams, but do it rooted in reality. Heck, if I had to empty bed pans, I'd quit and take a crappy flying job too and be happy about it. Eventually, I'd recognize the need to make money and build a future though. I did pursue my Air Force dream, rooted in the reality of the advise of my father gave on what to expect. It wasn't all a bed of roses, but I understood that going in so there were few surprises. My expectations were appropriately managed and so should the young, aspiring airline pilot. If today's airline industry is one you give two thumbs up, that's your opinion. I happen to disagree. I think it mostly stinks. Thing is, the aura and the excitement of flying wiz bang glass jets usually wear off in short order, and the reality of your lot in life will stare you in the face when you see friends buying nice homes, taking vacations, and putting their kids through college. Hard to look that far ahead maybe.... Maybe none of that matters to some people and that's their choice. Another buddy of mine from high school tried a career as a professional musician, had some success, then less, and eventually had to feed his family and got a more steady job. He gave his dream a shot--good for him. The young pilot wanna-be should pursue his dream, but not through rose colored glasses.

FOTGTD

76, first of all most RN's that i know of dont empty bed pans all day, neither did i. dialysis is where i worked, but just wasn't happy. as far as "crappy" RJ job....guess it is a matter of opinion. i dont drink the kool-aid or ever did. i knew that this career would have ups and downs and thats what i really wanted, a chance at that.

as far as implying that you will never make enough flying is true or not. remember it is not how much you make but how much you SPEND. i bought my first house in college on a bartenders salary. i scraped $10,000 together(with a little help from family) and moved out of my money sucking apartment. my wife and i now own a second home and rent out the first=positive cash flow. we do this on a teachers and FO's salary these days. i contribute 15% to my 401k and live within my means. your 70k a year firemen friend makes double what I pull in and he could be worse off(not saying he is....just an example). i hear guys all the time at work crying how they dont have any cash or "cant wait for our next raise" and then turn around and buy a boat, bike or whatever.

your right...these days you must plan for your future......PAY YOURSELF FIRST.

as for being "outgunned" we'll see. i have two friends that just left my company for large carriers.....RJ guys...no military and another is a first year UPS guy. personality, attitude and a little help from friends is what usually takes you further. we all know the flying part is the easy part. and it really irks me when people say that all the "kids" these just want to fly glass with that Jerry Lewis look on their faces. simply not true for me.

B767flyr

FOTGTD,

Apparently I know as much about the RN profession as you do about what my dad sounds like or what my childhood aspirations were. Dialyses still sounds pretty dreadful, I'm glad there are folks that aspire to be medical professionals. It wouldn't be my bag either.

As far as the quality of an RJ job, it is fine as a temporary stop on the way to something better, but no way is it acceptable for a career just because you can make ends meet on the salary today. Just my opinion. You indicate you know the risk of this industry but want a shot at it anyway. Ok that's fine. I'm not risk averse, but I'm a realist too. And reality was all I was trying to provide the young pilot. This industry is a minefield right now, hence my advice, and my pursuit of a second career in aerospace (not flying). Time to hedge my bet at the craps table. As long as you're ready to have your career implode at the most inopportune season of your life (sick parent, kid in college, pregnant wife), strap on your helmet and goggles and go for it. Maybe it won't happen to you, but it happened to a lot of guys I know and it's very sad.

It ain't what you spend, it's what you spend and make, otherwise you wouldn't bother with a cash positive income property. Don't poo poo the revenue side regardless how well you're stretching that RJ salary. A lot of young people couldn't afford a house (outside a slum) on $10K down and a bartender salary because of cost of living. That's very noble, sort of, to be above the cash flow, but you may get over it one day if you have kids and they want to eat, outgrow clothes, drive a car and go to college. Maybe your wife might want to take a vacation beyond the non-rev world. You're right on about paying yourself first and everyone should be as financially disciplined as you. And yes, someone making twice your salary can spend themselves into the poor house. As for me, if I want to be able to buy my wife a nice dinner or a modest piece of jewelry, or myself a new hunting rifle or electronic gadget, repair a blown transmission--I don't want to worry whether it's "in the budget". Right now I don't have to. Furthermore, let me make a distinction. I do like my job very much, not my career. If I retire flying airplanes at a wage well into six figures and a good retirement, I'll be surprised and thrilled. I'm not betting on it, hence the hedge with the second career.

If you decide to move up, your resume will get you in the door (unless your well connected), then attitude and game-show host personality take over. A resume doesn't do personality justice. I've done a few interviews the last 18 years of my career.

A buddy from high school wanted to be a professional musician in the worst way, and had some success, then less, and finally had to hang it up and get a more steady job to support his family. He gave it a shot and had no regrets, but had no illusions about his chances of earning a living playing music (not teaching) for an audience. That's all I'm saying about the new kids in the biz--take a shot of reality with your glass of Kool-Aid. You seem to have a good handle on the risks (sans Jerry Lewis grin) of the career. Don't sell yourself short. You have a needed skill and making money with it isn't a bad thing. You're worth more than you give yourself credit for.

SkyHigh

It is an incredibly sad thing to be weeks from achieving your life's goal and to watch helplessly as the door slowly closes leaving you out in the cold. It tends to make you a little upset and dissatisfied. Many of you out there are not really professional pilots. You are really closer to someone pursuing a working hobby. Your bills are paid, a nice nest egg grows in the bank and either you have no kids or they are grown. People like you can't understand how those they work with are a little down at times. I mean we are all flying right? What could be better? Most of us howerer are trying to make a living out of this dead end industry. Flying an RJ for a living is a far cry from what it takes to properly support a family of four to a middle class lifestyle. If you are stuck there it becomes a prison sentence. Slowly the reality overtakes you that you will never pay off those student loans and will probably always be behind the financial power curve. It is kind of a downer. Most of us spent all the extra money on flight training and years in college to have a better life. A back up plan is always a good idea.

SkyHigh

MikeM

Ok, I could not help but post on this interesting thread. I dropped out of medical school 3 weeks ago because I became very ill and could not adjust to the air pollution in Mexico. I am back in California and recovering. I was in Mexico because I got rejected from all the medical schools in the USA, simply since I did not have my bachelor's degree yet. Wanting to become an airline pilot was one of my career choices when growing up (lol, I'm still 21). So I re-entertained the idea of becoming a pilot and called numerous flight schools. Wow, a pilot's education can cost just as much as getting an MD as with all the loan situations for getting that money. Based on reading this entire thread and talking with some of my pilot friends who are making their ways through the airlines, I will return to college and get my degree if I cannot get into another med school by Fall 2006. I felt helpless knowing that I was out of med school (my dream!) so that's why I considered scrapping med school and going to flight school this past few weeks. I'm really not into the money earning issue pertaining to both being a doctor or pilot, but what is very very important to me is job progression (intern > Resident > attending > professor and so on). I am slowly figuring out that the job progression as an [airline] pilot (cessna > multieng> ...SAAB > 737 >.....747) can be very slow and the harsh reality may be that even if I pursue a career as a pilot, I may never even get to sit in the left seat of a 747 cockpit enroute to Tokyo. Anyways, I guess I'll just have to be content with Microsoft Flight Simulator. Good day.