Planesense
10-25-2017, 07:05 PM
#1491
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2015
Posts: 226
Originally Posted by DarkSideMoon
Over half my 11 person class left before their contracts were up. That's a sign something is fundamentally wrong.
10-26-2017, 03:45 AM
#1492
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 441
Just wondering does Plane Sense start your rotation on a weekday or on a weekend? Also how do you pack for 8 days in a bag that fits into an airliner's overhead compartment or do you use a bag that you have to check when you airline?
10-26-2017, 03:59 AM
#1493
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2015
Posts: 67
Originally Posted by MaxMar
Alternatively, it's a sign that the regionals are hiring, and it's hard to convince someone to fly a single engine turboprop for a few years when brand name jets are calling from across the ramp. Even for a lot more money and a better schedule, people would still use PS and Boutique and Surf Air to build time for the jet jobs because that's the career they want and it's their job to lose. When airline hiring slows back down, PS may become more appealing for some people. I have a hard time believing a PC-12 could compete with a 50,000 lb RJ regardless of the QoL.
That being said, when youre gone for 8 days and min rested a majority of it, and then scrounging for food like a savage. It makes those 8 days feel waaay longer and those 6 days off not nearly long enough to recover physically and mentally.
If I leave for an airline, its simply because the QoL here is not what I was expecting it to be. That being said, I have just under a year until my contract is up so who knows what can change in the pilot group and schedules. It could get way worse, or way better. I also have pilots in my class who wont stay past their contracts and CANT go to the airlines (due to multi-time), but theyre so fed up with the mistreatment theyre getting from ops that they wont even think about upgrading or staying longer than necessary.
Everyone has their own stories. I dont have it as bad as some, but some days still make me question whether this was the right choice. So I dont blame those who leave for other options, airlines or not. A lot of people choose jobs for money, so the appeal of the airlines is ridiculously strong, but some of us dont. And when we leave that shows theres a bigger issue in my opinion.
Here just a few things that would make me stay longer...
-Longer min rest. 12 hour. 10 hours is unreasonable. That gives you an hour from the time you land to be ASLEEP In your hotel to get a full recommended 8 hours of rest. Obviously theres no time for dinner or breakfast on a min rest night if you plan on sleeping 8 hours.
-7/7 schedules. Everyone says itll never happen. Im hopeful.
-Turn times no shorter than 45 minutes. Thats already the minimum and its not frequently followed...so...
-Less responsibility on the pilots for frivolous things. Part of the reason I dont want to be captain is because of all the damn paperwork it comes with. I dont want to be a bookkeeper and a captain. Idk how you guys do those expense logs I give you major props...
10-26-2017, 04:01 AM
#1494
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2015
Posts: 67
Originally Posted by tanker
Just wondering does Plane Sense start your rotation on a weekday or on a weekend? Also how do you pack for 8 days in a bag that fits into an airliner's overhead compartment or do you use a bag that you have to check when you airline?
10-26-2017, 04:49 AM
#1495
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 451
Originally Posted by AlexBlakeCFI
From what ive seen, most captains have a single hotel outfit and then their uniforms. I have my uniforms and then like 4 shirts and a pair of pants and 2 pairs of shorts. its not that much stuff. You figure it out and you roll the clothes! Summer uniforms are 3 polos which take up less space as well than the 4 shirts you get for winter. It sounds daunting at first, but youre almost always in uniforms.
22"
http://www.luggageworks.com/browse-products/rolling-bags/stealth-22-suiter-bag.html
Small roller
http://www.luggageworks.com/browse-products/aurora-series/aurora-rolling-multi-tote.html
10-26-2017, 04:54 AM
#1496
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Posts: 49
Originally Posted by DarkSideMoon
How is it wrong? You don't get full jet pay until the contract runs out, they keep you gimped, you're not making full jet pay on top of the 10K. You have to repay a prorated portion of the contract if you leave. The whole thing reeks of desperation. They had *44* line PC-12 captains when I left for 35 airplanes. That is unsustainably bad. Over half my 11 person class left before their contracts were up. That's a sign something is fundamentally wrong.
Care to post the details for the help of those who are thinking about going rather than just looking down on the people who left?
Care to post the details for the help of those who are thinking about going rather than just looking down on the people who left?
I don't look down on the people who have left. On the contrary, I hope they do well and find a place that makes them happy. I do feel bad for the few people who can't fully move on though. You were here for what- 7, 8 months? You saw a very tiny glimpse of a company going through high attrition rates due to realities in the industry right now. In your short time here you came to the conclusion that things could be improved. Good observation. Did you ever bring any solutions to improve things to management? Cause just whining on here, even for current employees, does absolutely nothing to help improve things.
10-26-2017, 04:57 AM
#1497
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Posts: 49
Originally Posted by tanker
Just wondering does Plane Sense start your rotation on a weekday or on a weekend? Also how do you pack for 8 days in a bag that fits into an airliner's overhead compartment or do you use a bag that you have to check when you airline?
10-26-2017, 05:05 AM
#1498
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Posts: 49
Originally Posted by AlexBlakeCFI
-Less responsibility on the pilots for frivolous things. Part of the reason I dont want to be captain is because of all the damn paperwork it comes with. I dont want to be a bookkeeper and a captain. Idk how you guys do those expense logs I give you major props...
Seriously though, I thought the same thing before I upgraded, it's really not that bad if you have time to keep up with it throughout the day.
10-26-2017, 05:09 AM
#1499
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 451
Originally Posted by AlexBlakeCFI
I have to disagree with you there a bit. I came to PlaneSense as a pseudo career move. Im not here for life but I came for more than just time building, and planned to stay past my 1500 hours and contract. It IS some things that the company are putting us through that is making me teeter totter on a decision to stay or not past my contract. Im really not concerned about the money the airlines have to offer. The QoL that PlaneSense promises is what got me here in the first place. Having every other week off is a lot better in my opinion than having 3-4 days off when 2 of them are commuting days.
That being said, when youre gone for 8 days and min rested a majority of it, and then scrounging for food like a savage. It makes those 8 days feel waaay longer and those 6 days off not nearly long enough to recover physically and mentally.
If I leave for an airline, its simply because the QoL here is not what I was expecting it to be. That being said, I have just under a year until my contract is up so who knows what can change in the pilot group and schedules. It could get way worse, or way better. I also have pilots in my class who wont stay past their contracts and CANT go to the airlines (due to multi-time), but theyre so fed up with the mistreatment theyre getting from ops that they wont even think about upgrading or staying longer than necessary.
Everyone has their own stories. I dont have it as bad as some, but some days still make me question whether this was the right choice. So I dont blame those who leave for other options, airlines or not. A lot of people choose jobs for money, so the appeal of the airlines is ridiculously strong, but some of us dont. And when we leave that shows theres a bigger issue in my opinion. Same reasons I chose PS. I like the people, the culture, and the work. I often get the notion some feel you aren't a "real" pilot without applets on your shoulders from fellow and former employees and those that have ventured to the airlines. I have had some great days and some not so great days. I'm not anti airline, just not into chasing an airframe or applets or a type. I truly enjoy what I do. Some folks will never be happy here. You could tell some people they are going to be paid 100k and work 2 days a month. However, they would be the ones to complain than they had to airline a day before and a day after and file their own flight plan on the flight days. Some will never be happy at anything and will complain regardless. That is life. Some like work while other do not. As an F.O I always flight planned and compared it to the captain so we were both in the know and could work as a more cohesive unit.
Some didn't like that but the majority didn't mind.
Here just a few things that would make me stay longer...
-Longer min rest. 12 hour. 10 hours is unreasonable. That gives you an hour from the time you land to be ASLEEP In your hotel to get a full recommended 8 hours of rest. Obviously theres no time for dinner or breakfast on a min rest night if you plan on sleeping 8 hours. Per the PC that's in the works. I agree with yoh totally here.
-7/7 schedules. Everyone says itll never happen. Im hopeful. That was tried and didn't work for coverage reasons I am told by several in the know. I wasn't here when the transition began to an 8/6.
-Turn times no shorter than 45 minutes. Thats already the minimum and its not frequently followed...so...
That takes me back to the original statement I made a page back. Don't worry about the turn times. Run your schedule with your captain the best you can. If youre late that's on ops. Not you. The more you worry over the small things your day starts off in a hole. Remember, it is what you make of it.
-Less responsibility on the pilots for frivolous things. Part of the reason I dont want to be captain is because of all the damn paperwork it comes with. I dont want to be a bookkeeper and a captain. Idk how you guys do those expense logs I give you major props...
keep it organized by month and pull it all out in no particular order and submit it. I do think that there is a better way. Digitize it and move on. Snap a pic and be done with it
Again, don't sweat the small stuff. Personally I wouldn't mind booking my own hotel and airline flights. That's just me.
That being said, when youre gone for 8 days and min rested a majority of it, and then scrounging for food like a savage. It makes those 8 days feel waaay longer and those 6 days off not nearly long enough to recover physically and mentally.
If I leave for an airline, its simply because the QoL here is not what I was expecting it to be. That being said, I have just under a year until my contract is up so who knows what can change in the pilot group and schedules. It could get way worse, or way better. I also have pilots in my class who wont stay past their contracts and CANT go to the airlines (due to multi-time), but theyre so fed up with the mistreatment theyre getting from ops that they wont even think about upgrading or staying longer than necessary.
Everyone has their own stories. I dont have it as bad as some, but some days still make me question whether this was the right choice. So I dont blame those who leave for other options, airlines or not. A lot of people choose jobs for money, so the appeal of the airlines is ridiculously strong, but some of us dont. And when we leave that shows theres a bigger issue in my opinion. Same reasons I chose PS. I like the people, the culture, and the work. I often get the notion some feel you aren't a "real" pilot without applets on your shoulders from fellow and former employees and those that have ventured to the airlines. I have had some great days and some not so great days. I'm not anti airline, just not into chasing an airframe or applets or a type. I truly enjoy what I do. Some folks will never be happy here. You could tell some people they are going to be paid 100k and work 2 days a month. However, they would be the ones to complain than they had to airline a day before and a day after and file their own flight plan on the flight days. Some will never be happy at anything and will complain regardless. That is life. Some like work while other do not. As an F.O I always flight planned and compared it to the captain so we were both in the know and could work as a more cohesive unit.
Some didn't like that but the majority didn't mind.
Here just a few things that would make me stay longer...
-Longer min rest. 12 hour. 10 hours is unreasonable. That gives you an hour from the time you land to be ASLEEP In your hotel to get a full recommended 8 hours of rest. Obviously theres no time for dinner or breakfast on a min rest night if you plan on sleeping 8 hours. Per the PC that's in the works. I agree with yoh totally here.
-7/7 schedules. Everyone says itll never happen. Im hopeful. That was tried and didn't work for coverage reasons I am told by several in the know. I wasn't here when the transition began to an 8/6.
-Turn times no shorter than 45 minutes. Thats already the minimum and its not frequently followed...so...
That takes me back to the original statement I made a page back. Don't worry about the turn times. Run your schedule with your captain the best you can. If youre late that's on ops. Not you. The more you worry over the small things your day starts off in a hole. Remember, it is what you make of it.
-Less responsibility on the pilots for frivolous things. Part of the reason I dont want to be captain is because of all the damn paperwork it comes with. I dont want to be a bookkeeper and a captain. Idk how you guys do those expense logs I give you major props...
keep it organized by month and pull it all out in no particular order and submit it. I do think that there is a better way. Digitize it and move on. Snap a pic and be done with it
Again, don't sweat the small stuff. Personally I wouldn't mind booking my own hotel and airline flights. That's just me.
10-26-2017, 06:03 AM
#1500
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,948
Originally Posted by Docflyer
The details are contained in the document which everybody can read when they start working here. The cliff notes have already been posted here, for everybody else. Anybody who isn't even employed yet, or is about to start initial, has much more important things to worry about than jet/MOU and how it affects people today. You seem to be the only person, who has had a chance to read the full document, that still didn't grasp the details of it. But like I said, you don't need to worry about it any more right!? Great news! CRJ-200 limitations and profiles are much more interesting anyways.
I don't look down on the people who have left. On the contrary, I hope they do well and find a place that makes them happy. I do feel bad for the few people who can't fully move on though. You were here for what- 7, 8 months? You saw a very tiny glimpse of a company going through high attrition rates due to realities in the industry right now. In your short time here you came to the conclusion that things could be improved. Good observation. Did you ever bring any solutions to improve things to management? Cause just whining on here, even for current employees, does absolutely nothing to help improve things.
I don't look down on the people who have left. On the contrary, I hope they do well and find a place that makes them happy. I do feel bad for the few people who can't fully move on though. You were here for what- 7, 8 months? You saw a very tiny glimpse of a company going through high attrition rates due to realities in the industry right now. In your short time here you came to the conclusion that things could be improved. Good observation. Did you ever bring any solutions to improve things to management? Cause just whining on here, even for current employees, does absolutely nothing to help improve things.
Yep, every single time a survey or suggestion was asked for I filled it out or sent one in. I sent trip sheets to the pilot committee. I filled out feedback forms every time something happened that wasn't right. I never received a single response from anyone other than the pilot committee. So yeah, I did more than just complain about it.
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