Frontier Negotiations Discussion
11-13-2018 | 05:00 PM
#3291
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2009
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From: what???
11-13-2018 | 05:51 PM
#3292
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 333
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From: Airbus F/O
Looking at your argument then you can say that legacies should have crappy pay for 1-5 captain rates since no one will be on them. Why distribute the money amongst a scale that no one uses. On the contrast we should argue that we will have plenty of people on that scale and therefore make it more relevant.
11-13-2018 | 06:03 PM
#3293
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
From: A320 CA
11-13-2018 | 10:08 PM
#3294
On Reserve
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 97
Likes: 5
There seems to be some confusion among people about vacation slide. I don’t have insider knowledge but extrapolating a little from the email last Friday I think this is worth discussing.
I believe some people are thinking that you’ll be able to slide your vacation AFTER PBS awards you a line. This will not be the case. The benefit of vacation slide under PBS is that you can guarantee certain days off. For example you need the 12th-17th off for a cruise but your vacation week is the 15th-21st. You can then slide those days to cover your cruise. Each day of vacation should be worth 5 hours (waiting for more details on that).
The way it looks though, your vacation slide will happen BEFORE the bid run. This protects the days off you require. The only way having a vacation month will allow you to make more at premium is because you’ll have a few extra days off a month (likely minimum days off in a vacation month will be 15 or 16 but waiting for language) with an additional 35 hours of credit. With seniority you could get more than minimum days off.
I think most people who have used PBS know this already but if you haven’t, this is how it works.
I believe some people are thinking that you’ll be able to slide your vacation AFTER PBS awards you a line. This will not be the case. The benefit of vacation slide under PBS is that you can guarantee certain days off. For example you need the 12th-17th off for a cruise but your vacation week is the 15th-21st. You can then slide those days to cover your cruise. Each day of vacation should be worth 5 hours (waiting for more details on that).
The way it looks though, your vacation slide will happen BEFORE the bid run. This protects the days off you require. The only way having a vacation month will allow you to make more at premium is because you’ll have a few extra days off a month (likely minimum days off in a vacation month will be 15 or 16 but waiting for language) with an additional 35 hours of credit. With seniority you could get more than minimum days off.
I think most people who have used PBS know this already but if you haven’t, this is how it works.
This is a huge sacrifice IMO, and for Spirit pay rates..
11-14-2018 | 01:06 AM
#3295
On Reserve
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 195
Likes: 6
From: Airbus CA
This argument holds absolutely ZERO merit....think about it....the fact that F9 has a large percentage of both CA’s and FO’s on the bottom half of the pay scale gives our owners a HUGE competitive advantage compared to the Legacy with a larger percentage at the TOP of the pay scale! This fact alone should be enough of a reason that they can pay us closer to the middle/upper middle of the pack versus the the BOTTOM (across the board, CA and FO scales 1-12)! Come on guys...think!!!
Last edited by sab1250; 11-14-2018 at 01:27 AM.
11-14-2018 | 01:41 AM
#3296
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,108
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I’ve never been married but here’s how I imagine that conversation would go...
Me: Hey honey looks like the company and the union are finally coming to an agreement for the contract.
Her: How’s it look?
Me: Not so great, come see. One of my co-workers graphed our pay relative to everyone else in the industry.
Her: Are you one of the three lines at the top?
Me: No that’s American, Delta, and United.
Her: Oh so you must be one of the four lines clustered in the middle.
Me: No that’s Southwest, JetBlue, Hawaiian, and Alaskan.
Her: I’m sorry I can’t find Frontier.
Me: See that yellow and green line at the bottom that looks kinda like vomit, that’s us and Spirit.
Her: Well they must be making it up to you with industry leading retirement contributions.
Me: No we’re last there too.
Her: Babe money isn’t everything, at least you get to keep that amazing perk where you turned 8 days of vacation in 27 straight days off last summer and took me on that romantic trip to Mont St Michel.
Me:
Her:
Me:
Her: I want a divorce.
Me: Hey honey looks like the company and the union are finally coming to an agreement for the contract.
Her: How’s it look?
Me: Not so great, come see. One of my co-workers graphed our pay relative to everyone else in the industry.
Her: Are you one of the three lines at the top?
Me: No that’s American, Delta, and United.
Her: Oh so you must be one of the four lines clustered in the middle.
Me: No that’s Southwest, JetBlue, Hawaiian, and Alaskan.
Her: I’m sorry I can’t find Frontier.
Me: See that yellow and green line at the bottom that looks kinda like vomit, that’s us and Spirit.
Her: Well they must be making it up to you with industry leading retirement contributions.
Me: No we’re last there too.
Her: Babe money isn’t everything, at least you get to keep that amazing perk where you turned 8 days of vacation in 27 straight days off last summer and took me on that romantic trip to Mont St Michel.
Me:
Her:
Me:
Her: I want a divorce.
11-14-2018 | 05:24 AM
#3297
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
This argument holds absolutely ZERO merit....think about it....the fact that F9 has a large percentage of both CA’s and FO’s on the bottom half of the pay scale gives our owners a HUGE competitive advantage compared to the Legacy with a larger percentage at the TOP of the pay scale! This fact alone should be enough of a reason that they can pay us closer to the middle/upper middle of the pack versus the the BOTTOM (across the board, CA and FO scales 1-12)! Come on guys...think!!!
You may not agree with what I said but I can promise you guys looking to come here do.
11-14-2018 | 05:25 AM
#3298
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,454
Likes: 0
From: A320 FO
A lot of no voters on here, myself included, but speaking with 6 different Capts today who were yes voters. Apparently there is a rumor that the signing bonus will be divided out strongly in the Capts favor. I really hope that's not true, we dont need to create a further divide amongst us.
11-14-2018 | 05:35 AM
#3299
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 380
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This absolutely has merit. There is value working for an airline with an aggressive growth plan. What if I told you you could have Southwest’s pay scale be you couldn’t upgrade for 10 years? Would you be happier? Do the math....4th year FO at Southwest $145...4th year Captain Frontier $206. The problem is guys want their cake and they want to eat it too.
You may not agree with what I said but I can promise you guys looking to come here do.
You may not agree with what I said but I can promise you guys looking to come here do.
11-14-2018 | 05:42 AM
#3300
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
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