fcoolaiddrinker

That’s a question nobody can answer except you. I can tell you management comes and goes. Sometimes it’s labor friendly sometimes it’s not. Your going to deal with both more than a few times.

dracir1

Scake of 1-10 (10 being absolutely certain)

Do you think BB will be fired inside of 3 years? 5? 10?

TOGALOCK

I get that everyone’s circumstances are different and for some making a switch right now may be in the best interest of them and their family (live in legacy domicile, etc), but this industry shakeup has literally just begun and things in this industry turn on a dime. If someone at F9 is out of the furlough zone, which is typically accepted to be above the 20-25% mark, leaving right now simply because management is mean is a foolish move IMHO. Covid hysteria around the world is not over, interest rates are rising, oil is expected to top $100/bbl, business travel is expected to stay surprised for a very long time of not permanently, possible international conflict could be on the horizon. There are a lot of unknowns in the world and economy right now that could change the landscape overnight. Six months or a year from now will likely paint a much clearer picture of what the future might hold for each airline. Let the world and industry play out a bit and see if a move is still worth it. That’s not to say that you shouldn’t have a plan B right now as well as a defined criteria for when it’s time to go. For me it’s 1 year of constant shrinkage with no attempt from management to correct it, or an involuntary downgrade. Whichever would come first.

As been said time and time again - Management comes and goes in this line of work. This too shall pass. In the absolute worst case scenario where we all come to work one day in a few weeks and the doors are locked.. Well.. That sucks, but I couldn’t think of a better hiring environment for that to happen in. We’ll all likely have a pitty job at a legacy within a couple of months.

If you leave now, ask yourself what you’re going to say when the legacy interviewer asks you the question that you know is coming: “Why are you looking to leave Frontier?”. If you have genuine, upbeat, and legitimate reasons to give in your answer then maybe you’d be making a right move. If you have to grit your teeth and lie with a happy, made up response because you know an answer about your distain for F9 management and how you feel they treat you won’t go over well, your move this early in the game is probably not so wise.

TLDR: Don’t make a knee jerk reaction you may regret later simply because the past month or so has sucked.

runinonfumes

the reality of aviation and F9s future is always a risk/benefit analysis. It all comes down to that. When I looked at it, I came upon the conclusion that the risk at F9 is more significant then that at any of the legacies. Even if money really was a wash (it’s not even close BTW) the potential loss of the current seniority gains at all the legacy’s and Cargo's is real vs. the the HOPE that F9 will be able to really double in size anytime soon. The added benefit of how truly terrible F9s management was during the contract negotiations on top of how utterly spineless the senior pilots were during last negotiations. I just couldn’t see real improvements ever becoming a reality. I just can’t get past the level of risk staying at F9 has. And no F9 is in now way better suited to ride out some downturn then any other airline. The last 3 years more then proved that. Why are some folks so convinced otherwise? Did they forget how close they came to being jobless before?

So I made a move, and I will be 80% in base before the end of my training. The company is needing to add 25% to my fleet just to meet demand and they are actually doing it, not just making promises. So by mid summer I will be sub 50%. Upgrades (it seems some people are ever so hung up on that metric for some reason) are less then at F9s.

SomeGuy12

Good for you. The next negotiation will be a real fight. The last time they didn’t have a reason to fight / delay a contract. They had to invent one. This time they have a real reason. Attrition will have to be pretty severe to force their hand.

fcoolaiddrinker

it’s not even close is right depending on where you are. For me I would lose a few hundred grand at least. I flew a UAL guy to sfo the other day. He was commuting to sfo to start a 4 day. Started with one leg to ewr. By the time I was back in las he was just taking off to ewr. We both showed at the same time and I was home eating breakfast for the same 5 credit that day. Pretty sure my QOL is better than his. At least that day. That’s why I mentioned nobody can answer the question except that person.

Bravo3

Whether or not management can predict attrition is debatable. What’s factual is pouring gasoline on the attrition fire that’s already burning!!! That makes no logical sense whatsoever. They might as well hang a sign on the HQ stating “Pilots don’t come here.”

TOGALOCK

Well that’s pretty much what the union did in the summer of ‘18 and it worked. - A TA was had by late fall. The company is just saving them the trouble and doing it themselves this time. Fingers crossed that the shenanigans work in our favor in the long run.

Bravo3

Agreed but the dynamic is different now with the crazy hiring and poaching being done by the legacies. It’s gonna take more than pay to fix this. Pay+Benefits+XYZ. Can F9 afford it in the long term is the real question.

TOGALOCK

Oh I have no doubt they can afford it. My concern is do they *want* to afford it? Or, is it cheaper to cash out on their investment and reinvest their earnings in a new and cheaper venture? That keeps me up at night more than this place shrinking into oblivion. Them getting rid of us could be reasonably pain free, or it could mean we’re all unemployed. However, like I said in another thread, the current hiring environment takes away some of the anxiety of door #2. I really don’t want to start over again if I don’t have to, but if F9 were to suddenly cease to exist, all 1700 of us would probably have a pitty job offer from a legacy within a month.