The New Frontier??
10-13-2012 | 08:27 PM
#71
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How many guys have actually taken an Airbus seat that were junior to you before the SLI and are now senior to you? How many Tier 3 FO's have had either junior Lynx guys or Furloughed Midwest guys now senior to them on the SLI take a seat on the E-jet? If separation does occur and you guys are no longer bound by the SLI, will all of the RAH guys that have actually lost seniority in seat going to get their prior seniority back? I guess what I am getting at is, losing seniority is the end game for you guys and are doing what ever you can to separate, but it's tough sh*t for the RAH guys that have actually lost seniority in their seat?
1. I'd be happy to take all the Lynx guys off your hands by hiring them here.
2. On the SLI, I took a 200% seniority hit (i.e. I have 3 times as many pilot senior to me as I had before) now, and about 1500% hit at retirement. How badly is the seniority impacted for the worst case at RAH?
Based on that 60-70% leaving, knowing that my relative seniority will only go backwards until we double in size doesn't make me feel any better about the deal. I don't hold out much hope that an E-jet pilot would stick with crappy work rules and half the pay instead of going to the bus.
Last edited by FAULTPUSH; 10-13-2012 at 08:40 PM.
10-13-2012 | 10:37 PM
#72
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From: A320 Captain
10-13-2012 | 10:41 PM
#73
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From: A320 Captain
Ahh..taking joy in the misery of others, I see. You are a gem, Bolo.
After all the B.S. from you guys, I certainly don't care much for your pilot group as a whole, BUT I would never take pleasure in hearing about someone getting, oh say, a joint MDW-ORD base they don't want.
Closing bases screws with people's lives. I wouldn't wish that on even you. But hey, keep it classy Frontier!
After all the B.S. from you guys, I certainly don't care much for your pilot group as a whole, BUT I would never take pleasure in hearing about someone getting, oh say, a joint MDW-ORD base they don't want.
Closing bases screws with people's lives. I wouldn't wish that on even you. But hey, keep it classy Frontier!
10-14-2012 | 10:02 AM
#75
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From: Guppy gear slinger
It's more like I'd rather us fail than watch my seniority stagnate for the next 10-15 years (and that's assuming we double in size every 5 years).
I had to read that about 3 times to understand it, but I think the answer is that:
1. I'd be happy to take all the Lynx guys off your hands by hiring them here.
2. On the SLI, I took a 200% seniority hit (i.e. I have 3 times as many pilot senior to me as I had before) now, and about 1500% hit at retirement. How badly is the seniority impacted for the worst case at RAH?
Only until the fence drops in another 5+ years.
Based on that 60-70% leaving, knowing that my relative seniority will only go backwards until we double in size doesn't make me feel any better about the deal. I don't hold out much hope that an E-jet pilot would stick with crappy work rules and half the pay instead of going to the bus.
I had to read that about 3 times to understand it, but I think the answer is that:
1. I'd be happy to take all the Lynx guys off your hands by hiring them here.
2. On the SLI, I took a 200% seniority hit (i.e. I have 3 times as many pilot senior to me as I had before) now, and about 1500% hit at retirement. How badly is the seniority impacted for the worst case at RAH?
Only until the fence drops in another 5+ years.
Based on that 60-70% leaving, knowing that my relative seniority will only go backwards until we double in size doesn't make me feel any better about the deal. I don't hold out much hope that an E-jet pilot would stick with crappy work rules and half the pay instead of going to the bus.
2. Well, I personally lost 846 spots in the integration. Your percentage is meaningless because it's relative to where you are on the list. I didn't lose anywhere near the percentage you did, but I know you didn't slip 846 spots. By your calculations if your #2 CA got 2 people integrated above him, he loses your percentage. I guess my 'windfall' integration that I don't deserve is why I'm an almost 5-year FO looking at going back to reserve next month.
Exactly how long does it take for one to "pay their dues" these days? Less time if you used to work for Lynx, apparently. For your FO's that got hired at F9 after completing at whopping 13 or 14 months at Lakes Air - how have they paid their dues and ours haven't? Just curious what your logic is on all this.
10-14-2012 | 11:51 AM
#76
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From: B756 FO
1. Why Lynx? Because they've paid their dues and RAH pilots have not?
2. Well, I personally lost 846 spots in the integration. Your percentage is meaningless because it's relative to where you are on the list. I didn't lose anywhere near the percentage you did, but I know you didn't slip 846 spots. By your calculations if your #2 CA got 2 people integrated above him, he loses your percentage. I guess my 'windfall' integration that I don't deserve is why I'm an almost 5-year FO looking at going back to reserve next month.
Exactly how long does it take for one to "pay their dues" these days? Less time if you used to work for Lynx, apparently. For your FO's that got hired at F9 after completing at whopping 13 or 14 months at Lakes Air - how have they paid their dues and ours haven't? Just curious what your logic is on all this.
2. Well, I personally lost 846 spots in the integration. Your percentage is meaningless because it's relative to where you are on the list. I didn't lose anywhere near the percentage you did, but I know you didn't slip 846 spots. By your calculations if your #2 CA got 2 people integrated above him, he loses your percentage. I guess my 'windfall' integration that I don't deserve is why I'm an almost 5-year FO looking at going back to reserve next month.
Exactly how long does it take for one to "pay their dues" these days? Less time if you used to work for Lynx, apparently. For your FO's that got hired at F9 after completing at whopping 13 or 14 months at Lakes Air - how have they paid their dues and ours haven't? Just curious what your logic is on all this.
And as far as the dues paying question you asked... your 5 years of driving an E-jet around is likely more experience then some guys had getting hired at F9, but their defense has and always will be that they earned their job at F9 through getting the interview and job offer. It does not matter that you may have 2K more hours then a good majority had when they got hired from Lakes or where ever they were before. The fact remains they got the job offer there and you did not.
10-14-2012 | 12:25 PM
#77
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From: Guppy gear slinger
10-14-2012 | 12:31 PM
#78
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From: Guppy gear slinger
Honestly, from a few guys I have spoke with that were at Lynx, they all seem to say the same thing that F9 guys were dicks to them and then when RAH came along they immediately turned their attention to being dicks to them. I obviously was not there and everyone has there own thickness of skin, but never the less it makes for interesting cocktail laughs about the bi-polar disorder over there.
And as far as the dues paying question you asked... your 5 years of driving an E-jet around is likely more experience then some guys had getting hired at F9, but their defense has and always will be that they earned their job at F9 through getting the interview and job offer. It does not matter that you may have 2K more hours then a good majority had when they got hired from Lakes or where ever they were before. The fact remains they got the job offer there and you did not.
And as far as the dues paying question you asked... your 5 years of driving an E-jet around is likely more experience then some guys had getting hired at F9, but their defense has and always will be that they earned their job at F9 through getting the interview and job offer. It does not matter that you may have 2K more hours then a good majority had when they got hired from Lakes or where ever they were before. The fact remains they got the job offer there and you did not.
Supposing the separation happens in full and F9 needs to hire from the street, I suspect an RAH applications will find the ol' round file. In my mind if there is no opportunity, the point about interviewing and getting the job becomes moot.
10-14-2012 | 01:23 PM
#79
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From: A320 Captain
And as far as the dues paying question you asked... your 5 years of driving an E-jet around is likely more experience then some guys had getting hired at F9, but their defense has and always will be that they earned their job at F9 through getting the interview and job offer. It does not matter that you may have 2K more hours then a good majority had when they got hired from Lakes or where ever they were before. The fact remains they got the job offer there and you did not.
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