The New Frontier??
10-15-2012, 08:07 PM
#101
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Position: A320 Captain
Posts: 641
Originally Posted by SeaRider
Yes and no.
The airframes we gained in the Q400's are almost a net wash considering the parking of the smallest e-jets, selling/sub-leasing of a few 170's and 190's leaving. I have made some progress up the list (less than half way up the RAH FO list in almost 5 years) but most of that is due to attrition. The Q400's have prompted the company to 'recall' ex-midwesters, upgrade, and hire to replace the attrition of the last couple of years that had not been replaced when they left.
-SR
The airframes we gained in the Q400's are almost a net wash considering the parking of the smallest e-jets, selling/sub-leasing of a few 170's and 190's leaving. I have made some progress up the list (less than half way up the RAH FO list in almost 5 years) but most of that is due to attrition. The Q400's have prompted the company to 'recall' ex-midwesters, upgrade, and hire to replace the attrition of the last couple of years that had not been replaced when they left.
-SR
BOLO
10-15-2012, 08:10 PM
#102
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2008
Posts: 879
Originally Posted by SeaRider
The Q400's have prompted the company to 'recall' ex-midwesters,...
10-15-2012, 08:14 PM
#103
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Originally Posted by FAULTPUSH
My guess is that a junior 747 captain at NW doesn't have a DL 737 pilot going ahead of them.
Numbers aren't what count... it's the % and bidding power.
The only slots that should have gone in front of any F9 people in the merger should have been the 190 CA slots in front of F9 FOs. Everyone else should have gone behind them due to the small lift that RAH brought to the merger.
10-15-2012, 09:51 PM
#104
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Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: 7ERB
Posts: 2,039
Originally Posted by FAULTPUSH
My guess is that a junior 747 captain at NW doesn't have a DL 737 pilot going ahead of them.
You would be very surprised. Life happens/mergers happens. As much as I was semi-confused about the outcome of our merger, we have to live with it and build.
The issue going forward is that if we continue to merge with other airlines (Ie AK/HA); the year 2000 hire NWA pilots will be in perpetual downward spiral. I understand your concerns, I sympathize with you too. I just dont think the arbitrators give a rats a$$.
TEN
10-15-2012, 10:00 PM
#105
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2008
Posts: 879
Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
Considering the senior 737 captain is around 600 in the company, you would be incorrect.
Numbers aren't what count... it's the % and bidding power.
The only slots that should have gone in front of any F9 people in the merger should have been the 190 CA slots in front of F9 FOs. Everyone else should have gone behind them due to the small lift that RAH brought to the merger.
Numbers aren't what count... it's the % and bidding power.
The only slots that should have gone in front of any F9 people in the merger should have been the 190 CA slots in front of F9 FOs. Everyone else should have gone behind them due to the small lift that RAH brought to the merger.
I agree with the last paragraph. In our SLI, the bottom end of the captain list comprises junior E145 captains and junior A320 captains (the E145 captains have about 2 years less longevity at RAH than the A320 captains have at F9).
10-15-2012, 10:10 PM
#106
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Originally Posted by FAULTPUSH
I should have said that a junior 737 captain didn't go ahead of a junior 747 captain.
I agree with the last paragraph. In our SLI, the bottom end of the captain list comprises junior E145 captains and junior A320 captains (the E145 captains have about 2 years less longevity at RAH than the A320 captains have at F9).
I agree with the last paragraph. In our SLI, the bottom end of the captain list comprises junior E145 captains and junior A320 captains (the E145 captains have about 2 years less longevity at RAH than the A320 captains have at F9).
I believe the makeup of your list was wrong... I don't know what the arbiter was thinking, but it was out of line of other SLI's. Nicolau looks like a benevolent genius compared to what they came up with in your case.
10-16-2012, 07:05 AM
#107
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Joined APC: Oct 2011
Position: El Capitan de Airbii
Posts: 277
Originally Posted by FAULTPUSH
Doesn't the fence prohibit Midwest guys from upgrading until every native RAH pilot has had the opportunity?
-SR
10-16-2012, 07:37 AM
#108
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: Bus FO
Posts: 316
Originally Posted by SeaRider
Nope. We have quite a few that accepted recall directly into the left seat and are currently flying the line. Many more hold senior FO positions and will be able to upgrade as their seniority holds.
-SR
-SR
10-16-2012, 08:09 AM
#109
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: Bus FO
Posts: 316
Originally Posted by SeaRider
If there were a system wide re-bid nothing would change from yesterday to today: I would go from a junior RJ FO to a junior RJ FO. Instead of anticipating a hit to my seniority in 6 years, I've already taken it. My opportunity for upgrade, the only reason I'm here, is significantly delayed due to hundreds of Midwest guys integrated above (at the time of the IMSL) many of whom can hold 'street captain', and the entire ex-Lynx group. At least for an F9 FO who sees a delayed upgrade (by whoever is left in 6 years), at least you are stagnated at a reasonable pay rate. Try being pinned a few extra years to topped out a 36K/yr paycheck.
This isn't intended to be a woe-is-me, but just to illustrate that plenty of us here native to RAH got the sh*t end of the stick too.
Also, not to take away from ex-midwest and what they went through. I'm sure even a street captain position here sucks compared to their former life. Losing spots sucks no matter the circumstances, but especially bad when likely-to-be-lifer street CA's clog up spots needed to attain the goal of getting some PIC and getting the F out.
If RAH/F9 never bought another airplane until I retired, I'd be in the same spot as today: waiting for people to leave so I can get the stupid TPIC my preferred airline wants, so I can leave. Point is: I cannot today, nor in 6 years, push anyone down in any equipment (and I don't want to). Again, just pointing that not everyone at RAH got this magic windfall all the F9 guys are outwardly ****ed about.
This isn't intended to be a woe-is-me, but just to illustrate that plenty of us here native to RAH got the sh*t end of the stick too.
Also, not to take away from ex-midwest and what they went through. I'm sure even a street captain position here sucks compared to their former life. Losing spots sucks no matter the circumstances, but especially bad when likely-to-be-lifer street CA's clog up spots needed to attain the goal of getting some PIC and getting the F out.
If RAH/F9 never bought another airplane until I retired, I'd be in the same spot as today: waiting for people to leave so I can get the stupid TPIC my preferred airline wants, so I can leave. Point is: I cannot today, nor in 6 years, push anyone down in any equipment (and I don't want to). Again, just pointing that not everyone at RAH got this magic windfall all the F9 guys are outwardly ****ed about.
The point I was trying to make is that 689 of those positions (which is the number for all the F9 pilots on the IMSL, and assuming no attrition) you "lost" are not going to affect your bidding power one iota. None of us are going to slide over to take your RJ upgrade. And even if one of us did, that would open a spot up in the right seat of the airbus. Either way, you move to a higher paying position.
The frontier pilot who has 846 people in front of him (also assuming no attrition) will have his bidding power affected by all 846 of them.
10-16-2012, 08:20 AM
#110
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: Bus FO
Posts: 316
Originally Posted by TenYearsGone
Losing seniority numbers suck, take it from us, here at Delta. At the end of the day, you are going to have to suck it up. Life or mergers are not fair. The sooner you can move on (very hard to do) the better your life will be.
BTW, in the Delta and NWA merger, guys lost anywhere from 400-2000 numbers.
TEN
BTW, in the Delta and NWA merger, guys lost anywhere from 400-2000 numbers.
TEN
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