Trowserchilli

I'll pass on your humble pie. I've started at plenty of carriers at 25k including this one.
Nobody said it was acceptable.

ColdWhiskey

First year pay at Frontier was not always so abysmal. Prior to Contract 2007 first year pay was in excess of $52. You can thank the leadership that put that contract to a vote and the overwhelming majority of the membership that passed it. We only have ourselves to blame for selling out the first year employees.

Let's not let it happen with the next contract!

DrJekyll MrHyde

I never understood why they chopped first year pay so heavily. Frontier wasn't hiring in huge numbers when they inked those 1st year rates, so the number of new guys/gals on first year pay had little effect on the cost savings in the concessionary contract. Was it short-sighted or just greed? Maybe dc7c or one of the other architects of the 2007 contract can chime in. I'm guessing I'll get something along the lines of, "well everybody else was doing it!"

Bugaboo

Was the 2007 contract a concessionary contract? Im pretty sure it wasnt.
The first year pay chop was a pawn for some other gain in the contract....thats how it usually goes. And im sure it didnt have anything to do with being shortsighted.

F9 Driver

At the time of the 1st year pay negotiations we weren't hiring, the company had lost money for six straight years / wanted concessions (ended up filing bankruptcy about 18 months later) and had a first year rate way above industry standard. In the four years after ratification of the lower 1st year rates Frontier only hired about 50 pilots.
You couldn't be further off about the motivation behind the lower rates. I don't define greed as refusing to take a pay cut in later years' rates (the voting pilots) to keep the above industry rates for employees that weren't likely to ever get hired (remember we were losing money / about to go bankrupt as sure as a Trump business venture in AC). The 2007 first year rates were still above industry average after the cut.
This contract is so outdated that trying to rationalize the changes to the first "whenever possible" 1999-2000 POS contract, which brought us to the 2007 pre-bankruptcy deal, is like asking why they just didn't put helium in the Hindenburg to avoid the fire.

Trowserchilli

Example:
In 2004 F9 starting pay was $52 ph.

kspilot

The Helium Control Act of 1927

DrJekyll MrHyde

So you're trying to say the first year pay chop WAS NOT a concession? Then *** is it exactly? It was more then it became LESS. And if it is a concession (yes it is), what is the limit on concessions before you can no longer tell yourself it isn't a concessionary contract? Go ahead and call it a trade for the pilots that were already on the list, that is my whole point. It was short sided and greedy decision with no effect on the monetary bottom line.

DrJekyll MrHyde

Ha ha ha! Outstanding! You just killed F9Driver's witty closing statement. Darn it Google search, you win again.

Duct Mon

Can anyone tell me what the training footprint is like?