Yes, I'm not kidding, that is exactly my chief complaint, zero foresight and willingness to throw the future new-hires under the bus because they don't yet have a voice. If your intent was to "save the airline" (I'm not in disagreement that it did not), then did you really think Frontier was never going to hire another pilot?! If Frontier wasn't hiring and it was going to close its doors, did they fight hard for those first years rates or did FAPA throw it in the gift bag?


Oh so now it is the responsibility of those pilots not even on property to fix every airline's first year pay by standing in one long line for the best paying job? How about you just keep your hands out of my pockets before I can even get on property

Fixing first year pay doesn't put another nickel in my pocket, but it's time to make it right and I'll gladly fight for those who don't have a voice here yet.

 

Well, I think the F9 guys did what they had to do to try and keep their jobs. I don't think we should judge in hindsight- it was a different time, different economy, different environment for hiring.

They did what they needed to do, and now we know what we need to do. We need do have several months of income for a strike in as soon as six months. We need to be united behind our union and each other. We need to stop attacking each other on a public forum.

And we need to fix the first year pay for FO's because it's stupid for someone to take a 50k/yr pay cut to come here. It is a disrespect to their accumulated knowledge and experience. We WILL do that when we fix our entire pay structure.

 

You don't need to save any money for a strike... IF we go on strike, it won't last for more than a day or two... IF we go on strike and it lasts longer than a week, this place will be out of business... Spirit lost MILLIONS the few days they went on strike... They'll drag this 11:59:59 and strike some sort of bs deal

 

I agree with everything you said except for this:"You don't need to save any money for a strike..." Don't be foolish and think that it will not happen here. Way better to plan now and be safe than sorry that you did not save some money for a possible strike.

 

Im pretty sure Frontier hired pilots the month following the 2007 Contract signing.....and around 50-60 others during the rest of 2007. Almost all (or all) of those pilots were furloughed in the fall of 2008 after BK declaration that summer. There were LOAs that provided for concessionary pay soon after.
Those concessions had NOTHING to do with keeping the company in business in my opinion. However, the pilots did what they thought was best at the time. Since then there was so much BS it wasnt funny (Republic outbidding Southwest, Republic f'ing up at every turn in running Frontier, a debacle of a seniority list integration that thankfully never materialized, and then Indigo swooping in and changing the whole environment at F9). I am amazed that the company pulled through and im glad they did. I have friends there who stuck it out and are still paying the consequences....but they still have a job. Growth post Indigo has allowed for quick movement in the ranks and fat $ for Indigo.
I hope F9 pilots get it all back and attain a contract that puts them where they belong, and deserve, for the job they do. They have had a rough road for the last 9 years.

 

we voted in the lowering of first year pay in either feb or march 2007 with close to 200 million in the bank, nowhere close to bankruptcy. bankruptcy wasn't even in the minds of the negotiators or the company during negotiations. To say we did it to stay in business is just not true. I was told at the time it was to pay for our DC plan.

 

Exactly ^^^^ The LOA concessions post BK were the perceived "company savers". I heard the cut in pay for 1st year pilot in the 2007 contract was a trade for exactly what you said...DC plan.

 

Spirit was on strike for 6 days. Be prepared to strike.

What facts are you basing your, "lasts longer than a week, this place will be out of business", statement on?

 

Common sense. Think about it....a super quick strike or they will close the doors.

Franke will not walk away from a couple BILLION dollars. Airbus, Gecas, CFM...all the big supplies and all those "stakeholders" who negotiated a slice of the pie will be ****ed beyond belief if Franke tanks this (and I quote an actual quote) "slicing up the pig". I would bet, too, that all those suppliers won't work with him in the future if he screws this up. It'll be Indigo's last airline rodeo, and that ain't gunna happen.

Frankie will settle at 11:59:59.

 

That's got nothing to do with what I posted.

Other poster stated the company would close its doors if a strike lasted more than a week.
Based on what?

To what you posted,
Frankie's already been through a six day strike and none of what you posted above happened to Spirit.
Be prepared to strike.