embpilot

Lets put it this way.....they have their own parking lot seperate from TSA employees in STL....go from there for your answer!!! Oh yeah, I've NEVER SEEN ONE WEAR THEIR ID FACING OUT... can someone please explain this..preferrably someone who I'm descibing. I know all those guys over there lemme tell ya....DREAM TEAM pilots too....(yes, I'm challenging their professionalism btw)

stobelma

Its not about helping TSA guys at all. This all about standing up against GoJet and how they were started. It doesn't matter if you were a part of the startup or not. You are accepting a job there so you take on all the negative effects of that decision. If that means blacklisting all of them, so be it, they shouldn't have gone there knowing that that was the most likely outcome. If no one wants to get blacklisted for going to GoJet, then they wouldn't have pilots. But since these sellouts want to go there.....thats fine. They can keep there sellout jobs for the rest of their careers. I do not accept that people need to provide for their families, you can make as much or more money doing something else while you are on furlough. People are going because they want to fly an airplane so badly no matter how bad the pay is or the company's past. So take that job, I hope it is that last one you will ever get.

250 or point 65

new here, but....

Here is the ultimate post of what AirWillie and BURflyer refuse to listen to:

Arguements for going to GoJet:

GoJet is the same as Republic/Shuttle

No, they are not the same at all. CHQ, Republic and Shuttle are one seniority list. The holding company cannot say to one pilot group, "fine, if you don't want to take a pay cut, we'll give the flying to another division."

TSA pilots had a chance at that flying and did not want to fly it

Now, why in the world would a pilot group pass on more flying? More flying is good for the company and for the industry, right?
Here's the key: flying bigger jets for the same pay is NOT good for the pilot group. That is why TSA passed on the flying.

GoJet is union now

Yes, but not a pilot's union. (Yes, I know, ALPA has its problem's too)

GoJet's contract is on par with the rest of the industry

Yes, the pay is comparable....

...to contracts negotiated after a major aviation catastrophe.

Those of us in contract negotiations are not going to settle for that pay, but GoJet did, AND with some of the worst work rules in the industry.

I'm not taking anyone elses job

Yes, you are. Indirectly, you are part of the problem of the race to the bottom.

I'm not hurting TSA pilots

No, you're not just hurting TSA pilots, you're hurting all pilots including yourself! What leg does any other pilot group have to stand on in negotiations if management knows that there are GoJetter's etc willing to work for less?

I'm just using GoJet to move get my hours and move on

It's strange, that's what I'm doing too at TSA. That's what my buddy is doing at Compass, and another friend at Eagle (OK, maybe not him). YOU are not using GoJet...

...GoJet is using you.

Even if you do get your hours and get out, it is on the backs of everyone else who wasn't willing to fly for nothing.

and my pet peeve...I have to feed my family

No, because if you really had to feed your family, you wouldn't be able to do it at this pay. You'd be working at QuikTrip for $42,500 a year, waiting out your furlough. There really is money outside aviation...and a lot of it doesn't even require a college degree...but you didn't need that to go to GoJet anyway!

Besides these, there are many more things that GoJetters will say to justify going there, but here is the bottom line, unless you live under a rock:

It is impossible to turn in an application to GoJet without it coming across your mind just once....screw everyone else.

It may come across your mind in a different fashion, like "I don't care what they think of me," but the meaning is the same.

It absolutely makes me sick.

stobelma

First post...wow...very well done.

250 or point 65

Who's keeping him from getting an available job...there are PLENTY of available jobs that pay more AND don't screw everyone else!

Bond

SDF to ORD...13 other airlines serving that route, not including cargo. Seriously!

There are elements in every airline (including UPS), that do not understand the dynamics of this segment (regional) of the industry, and the subsecuent effects that it has on the rest of the industry (including cargo). They make up and institude their own set of rules and values when it comes to a situation like this. This in turn encourages those individuals from contract worker operations such as gojets, to carry their backstabbing mentalities over to their future carriers...assuming they are fortunate enough to fall through the cracks.

Some just can't see the forest from the trees.

Flyboy8784

I SAY GOOD DAY SIR!!!!!!!!!!!

very very well played

homelessguy1

Great Post!!!

BURflyer

Take it for what it's worth.

250 or point 65

Everything you've said supports my last statement!

No, they are not the same at all. CHQ, Republic and Shuttle are one seniority list. The holding company cannot say to one pilot group, "fine, if you don't want to take a pay cut, we'll give the flying to another division."

Yes they are the same, an alter ego. The difference is that the pilots said yes to ****ty pay for big shiny airplanes

Well, I'd say that is a pretty big difference. First, Republic is an alter ego to who? However, once again you're saying "screw them". Screw TSA, who could have got a better contract than you Day 1 at GoJet if mgmt couldn't have depended on you guys flying for pennies. Screw the rest of the industry who is fighting for higher wages, not lower. BTW, do you know the definition of "whipsaw"?
\
Now, why in the world would a pilot group pass on more flying? More flying is good for the company and for the industry, right?
Here's the key: flying bigger jets for the same pay is NOT good for the pilot group. That is why TSA passed on the flying.

Let me gues, you're 26 year hold who thinks he's got it all figured out right? Talk to the guys that have been in the business for 30/40 years, they'll tell you that fighting with management doesn't get anywhere, they will always get their way. You're right, its much better to give into mgmt and hinder other pilots than fight with mgmt. ("Screw them") And especially at a regional where pilots are not only on the bottom of the unions priority but also with no leverage. I have no problem with paying my dues, but get a clue about what you're doing to YOUR future (you should understand this with your selfish attitude). The worse the regional pay is, the worse the major pay is. Again, its mgmt saying, why should I pay you X when that guy over there is willing to do it for Y?


Yes, but not a pilot's union. (Yes, I know, ALPA has its problem's too)
What? Who cares? It keeps the company from screwing with you.
And allows you to say, "GoJet's union now...so that makes it OK to go there" It doesn't.


Yes, the pay is comparable....
...to contracts negotiated after a major aviation catastrophe.
Those of us in contract negotiations are not going to settle for that pay, but GoJet did, AND with some of the worst work rules in the industry.

This is a typical BS argument wich doesn't mean anything, not anything special. I dont know, I think that being able to take care of my family in the future is pretty special. I may not have a wife and kids now, but I am smart enough to know I will in the future. The less you settle for, the less we all make in the future, and the less I can provide for my future family. Talk to the rest of the regionals who have been here for decades, remember GJ came after them. Get your history straight. It was pure arrogance at the majors that created the regionals(ok, mixed with some "we don't want two pay scales") And if I can remind you that GJ has all the basics that are needed in a regional contract. And I really love how you guys get your jollies off by saying the WORST work rules in the industry, keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better. Got me there, I've never read the contract. But I know that we at TSA have some pretty bad work rules and yours arent any better than ours.

Yes, you are. Indirectly, you are part of the problem of the race to the bottom.

That's very comical. What about the rest of the regionals? Howbout places like colgan that fly 75 seaters for 50 seat pay? How about skywest wich is almost doing half of UAs flying. CRJ9s for 22 per hour. I'm sorry but if you're a regional pilot you have no say in the race to the bottom argument, you're flying mainline flying

We are all part of that bigger problem, yes. But you just rationalized again..."its ok for me to say "screw you" because X airline is doing ____" And someone correct me if im wrong, but I believe skywest has duty rigs...? And as I've heard some of the best QOL in the industry.

No, you're not just hurting TSA pilots, you're hurting all pilots including yourself! What leg does any other pilot group have to stand on in negotiations if management knows that there are GoJetter's etc willing to work for less?

Uh dude, we make more than TSA and get 10-18 days off per month. I'm not sure how that's hurting others.

Again, research "whipsaw". And saying you make more than TSA means nothing because you are comparing 50 to 70 seaters, and we've been without a contract for 2+ years.
..
...GoJet is using you.
Even if you do get your hours and get out, it is on the backs of everyone else who wasn't willing to fly for nothing.

I can't really argue this one because I have no idea what you're trying to say

Like a prostitute saying, "I'm only using these guys for the money" when really, its the guys using the girls.

No, because if you really had to feed your family, you wouldn't be able to do it at this pay. You'd be working at QuikTrip for $42,500 a year, waiting out your furlough. There really is money outside aviation...and a lot of it doesn't even require a college degree...but you didn't need that to go to GoJet anyway!

again hopefully you're not some 20 year old that still relys on your parents financially giving out advice on how people should live their lives, actually, you were right the first time, I'm 26, on my own, and know everything. but times like these where no one (quiktrip, home depot, starbucks, whole foods, the container store, all hiring AND in the top 50 places to work) is hiring, you really need to be in someone elses shoes, untill then you're in no position to judge. (I'll be on the street when we give the planes back to Eagle. Already have made contacts at a couple of these places) My deal is that I've applied everywhere else, theres money outside flying during my time off I found that finding a job is not as easy as it seems. In all honesty I would have gotten a min wage job (do you live in st louis? i'll give you a place where you can make $42k)but they told us that it was going to be at least a year before we might be called back.


Besides these, there are many more things that GoJetters will say to justify going there, but here is the bottom line, unless you live under a rock: It may come across your mind in a different fashion, like "I don't care what they think of me," but the meaning is the same.

The bottom line is that GJ will double by next year. Noone cares about this TSA deal especially once they find out what happened. The only people that care or who think they care are the 20 something year olds who have no idea how airlines work that by fighting with management, they will eventually turn their airline into Southwest. No one has to justify anything, guys are coming over here, it's a real nice place to be. By next year I'll still be short about 1000 hour for upgrade but I'll be in the top third FO list with 15-18 days off. They just told us 15-20 new hires per month until at least next spring.

Well as long as you get yours!