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Tool of the day

Old 11-25-2015, 11:27 AM
  #7041  
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Originally Posted by mike734
Yeah, I get it. But as you see from the post above, some people seem to insist on an actual salute and some are even willing to hold up the show and drag the ramp guy out from the shed to perform the salute. You said you would accept a wave or a back flip. I think the vast majority of us would. But those who need the salute are tools. I guess the language should be changed so tools who can't see the forest because of all those damn trees can be comfortable.
You are wrong on this one. Per our SOP only a salute affirms to the captain that the ramp personnel have verified that all is clear and the pilots are free to set flaps and commence taxi. A "friendly wave" or someone holding up the bypass pin (not required by the way) doesn't count. If we were to taxi based on the assumption that a "friendly wave" was good enough and then there was a ground incident it would be our butts strung out.

Salute means salute, not "random arm twitch substituting as one"... and it really isn't that hard either.
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Old 11-25-2015, 11:40 AM
  #7042  
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Originally Posted by Herkflyr
You are wrong on this one. Per our SOP only a salute affirms to the captain that the ramp personnel have verified that all is clear and the pilots are free to set flaps and commence taxi. A "friendly wave" or someone holding up the bypass pin (not required by the way) doesn't count. If we were to taxi based on the assumption that a "friendly wave" was good enough and then there was a ground incident it would be our butts strung out.

Salute means salute, not "random arm twitch substituting as one"... and it really isn't that hard either.
Ugh, I'm so glad I don't work for that kind of airline.

Ok, OK. I'll acquiesce. BTW we push with the bypass pin in because we always have both A and B hydraulic system pumps ON. I have never thought that was a great plan but that's our procedure. While we are on the subject or procedure, it never ceases to amaze me how many different ways there are to fly the plane.
Starting next week or month we have a major rewrite of our Flight Handbook. New checklists and procedures. This will be the fourth major rewrite in the last 20 years. Maybe one day we'll get it right.
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Old 11-25-2015, 12:14 PM
  #7043  
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Originally Posted by mike734
Starting next week or month we have a major rewrite of our Flight Handbook. New checklists and procedures. This will be the fourth major rewrite in the last 20 years. Maybe one day we'll get it right.
Mind boggling but not surprising.
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Old 11-25-2015, 12:25 PM
  #7044  
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Originally Posted by mike734
Ugh, I'm so glad I don't work for that kind of airline.
Most guys understand the "spirt" of the salute, while others do not. The majority of guys at Delta would be just fine with a wave or a backflip.
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Old 11-25-2015, 03:53 PM
  #7045  
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My current an previous received verbal confirmation ground equipment an pin removed along which side to expect to the pin in hand and waive off. Reduces uncertainties and potential TOTDs
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Old 11-25-2015, 04:57 PM
  #7046  
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Originally Posted by mike734
Ugh, I'm so glad I don't work for that kind of airline.

Ok, OK. I'll acquiesce. BTW we push with the bypass pin in because we always have both A and B hydraulic system pumps ON. I have never thought that was a great plan but that's our procedure. While we are on the subject or procedure, it never ceases to amaze me how many different ways there are to fly the plane.
Starting next week or month we have a major rewrite of our Flight Handbook. New checklists and procedures. This will be the fourth major rewrite in the last 20 years. Maybe one day we'll get it right.
Lots of different ways to be safe, its easier to do it the way its written.
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Old 11-26-2015, 03:56 AM
  #7047  
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Originally Posted by iceman49
Lots of different ways to be safe, its easier to do it the way its written.
In a perfect world, everyone would adhere to their Company's SOP and everyone would know what's going on all the time.
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Old 11-26-2015, 04:25 AM
  #7048  
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At DAL, they were rewriting the procedures for the 727 as we were ferrying them to the desert for scrap!

It's all about the appearance of doing something!
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Old 11-26-2015, 04:52 AM
  #7049  
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Originally Posted by cornbeef007
Most guys understand the "spirt" of the salute, while others do not. The majority of guys at Delta would be just fine with a wave or a backflip.
I am guessing that they would not be...I would not be.

For starters if a salute is "haphazard" or even left-handed (I see that occasionally) that is good enough for me as it is for all of us I am guessing. But NO salute is not good enough. A wave just means "see ya later." A salute means "there is nothing impeding aircraft movement, we the ramp crew no longer are responsible for the safe movement of your aircraft, you are clear to lower flaps, commence taxi and have a great day." In a weird way you can think of the salute as the formal "severing" of the link between the flight and ground crew. The ground crew no longer has "ownership" of the aircraft and any future movement is solely the responsibility of the flight crew.

Am I taking one sentence in the FOM and needlessly taking an entire paragraph to explain it, all in a humorous thread titled "Tool of the Day." Yep.

But...it really isn't that hard, and I have rarely if ever seen a ground crew not do it.
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Old 11-26-2015, 07:36 AM
  #7050  
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TOTD - JFK approach last night. RJ checks in. Controller - "Kennedy altimeter 30.82, turn left heading ABC, descend and maintain XYZ."
RJ TOTD - "30.82?!?!? ATIS said it was 30.83!!"

Silence.

Third voice - "rrreeeeeeaaaaaallly???"

FO and I bust out laughing - "damn lying ATIS!!"
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