AIP.
#641
Banned
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,132
Likes: 0
It would seem the likes of Alaska and Southwest are where the mediator would have kept you, and perhaps release under the auspices of higher demands were unrealistic and your negotiators saw/knew this and accepted that reality rather than push for possibility. Good luck to you guys. Delta had pre 9/11 rates to reference as what is possible, you guys have SWA.
We can (and should) go past the Presidential Emergency Board step of the RLA.
The Railway Labor Act Simplified
Collective Bargaining Agreements (CBA's) under the RLA
Contracts remain in force until changed. Either party seeking to amend existing CBA’s must provide 30-day written notice as to desired changes. (Section 6 RLA). There is no time limit by which contracts must be negotiated to avoid a work stoppage. Under Section 6 of the act either side may propose changes to an existing collective bargaining agreement, but agreements (for purposes of stability and labor peace) generally contain agreed upon moratorium clauses that provide no change may be demanded on specified subjects for a prescribed period of time.
Once Section 6 notices proposing changes to an existing agreement have been served, the parties must maintain the status quo (no strikes or lockouts or promulgation of changes) until all procedures of the RLA have been fully exhausted.
For major disputes over wages, benefits and working conditions, the RLA provides for a three-member National Mediation Board, appointed by the president and confirmed by the Senate, with the power to mediate any dispute between carriers and their employees at the request of either party or upon the board's own motion.
There is no time limit on the mediation procedure. The NMB controls the schedule of talks and only the NMB may release the parties from mediation.
If the NMB is unable to bring about an amicable settlement of the controversy through mediation, the board is required to use its influence to induce the parties voluntarily to submit to binding arbitration. The law is specific in that arbitration is voluntary and not compulsory.
If both sides voluntarily agree to binding arbitration, an Arbitration Board of up to six members is to be established. Carriers and labor each select an equal number of arbitrators, who then select the additional member or members.
Presidential Emergency Board
If either labor or management decline voluntary arbitration, and if in the opinion of the NMB the continuance of the controversy threatens substantially to interrupt interstate commerce in any section of the nation, the NMB is required to notify the President of the United States, who may, at his discretion, create a fact-finding Presidential Emergency Board.
The parties must maintain the status quo (no strikes or lockouts) for 30 days. If the president chooses not to appoint an emergency board, strikes or lockouts may occur after the 30-day cooling-off period.
Emergency boards are comprised of neutral members whose job is to make an investigation and submit to the president, within 30 days of its creation, a fact-finding report with non-binding recommendations for procedures or terms on which a dispute might be settled. During this period, the parties must maintain the status quo (a second 30-day cooling-off period).
Upon submission of the PEB report, the parties are required to maintain the status quo for an additional, or third 30-day cooling-off period (they may mutually agree to extend the period of status quo). The non-binding recommendations of the PEB are expected to carry the weight of public opinion and induce a voluntary agreement among the parties.
At this point, the RLA has run its course. If no agreement has been reached, either side becomes free to act in its own economic interests -- a work stoppage (or strike) by labor, a lockout by management, or unilateral implementation of management proposals (that generally would force a work stoppage).
However, Congress frequently imposes its own settlement. Such congressional action is not part of the RLA. The constitutional authority for Congress to impose its own settlements is found in Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution's commerce clause.
Contracts remain in force until changed. Either party seeking to amend existing CBA’s must provide 30-day written notice as to desired changes. (Section 6 RLA). There is no time limit by which contracts must be negotiated to avoid a work stoppage. Under Section 6 of the act either side may propose changes to an existing collective bargaining agreement, but agreements (for purposes of stability and labor peace) generally contain agreed upon moratorium clauses that provide no change may be demanded on specified subjects for a prescribed period of time.
Once Section 6 notices proposing changes to an existing agreement have been served, the parties must maintain the status quo (no strikes or lockouts or promulgation of changes) until all procedures of the RLA have been fully exhausted.
For major disputes over wages, benefits and working conditions, the RLA provides for a three-member National Mediation Board, appointed by the president and confirmed by the Senate, with the power to mediate any dispute between carriers and their employees at the request of either party or upon the board's own motion.
There is no time limit on the mediation procedure. The NMB controls the schedule of talks and only the NMB may release the parties from mediation.
If the NMB is unable to bring about an amicable settlement of the controversy through mediation, the board is required to use its influence to induce the parties voluntarily to submit to binding arbitration. The law is specific in that arbitration is voluntary and not compulsory.
If both sides voluntarily agree to binding arbitration, an Arbitration Board of up to six members is to be established. Carriers and labor each select an equal number of arbitrators, who then select the additional member or members.
Presidential Emergency Board
If either labor or management decline voluntary arbitration, and if in the opinion of the NMB the continuance of the controversy threatens substantially to interrupt interstate commerce in any section of the nation, the NMB is required to notify the President of the United States, who may, at his discretion, create a fact-finding Presidential Emergency Board.
The parties must maintain the status quo (no strikes or lockouts) for 30 days. If the president chooses not to appoint an emergency board, strikes or lockouts may occur after the 30-day cooling-off period.
Emergency boards are comprised of neutral members whose job is to make an investigation and submit to the president, within 30 days of its creation, a fact-finding report with non-binding recommendations for procedures or terms on which a dispute might be settled. During this period, the parties must maintain the status quo (a second 30-day cooling-off period).
Upon submission of the PEB report, the parties are required to maintain the status quo for an additional, or third 30-day cooling-off period (they may mutually agree to extend the period of status quo). The non-binding recommendations of the PEB are expected to carry the weight of public opinion and induce a voluntary agreement among the parties.
At this point, the RLA has run its course. If no agreement has been reached, either side becomes free to act in its own economic interests -- a work stoppage (or strike) by labor, a lockout by management, or unilateral implementation of management proposals (that generally would force a work stoppage).
However, Congress frequently imposes its own settlement. Such congressional action is not part of the RLA. The constitutional authority for Congress to impose its own settlements is found in Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution's commerce clause.
This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.
#642
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,274
Likes: 55
From: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
I wasn't making an argument - I was asking a question because I honestly didn't know the circumstances.
My intent was to make sure the "contract" didn't have a loophole to screw us over with subcontracting, wet leases, or some other creative legal mechanism.
Game on for everything else....
This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.
My intent was to make sure the "contract" didn't have a loophole to screw us over with subcontracting, wet leases, or some other creative legal mechanism.
Game on for everything else....
This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.
How long have you been here?
There was no contract when jetblue used expressjet to cover the broken 190s. It’s also why we have this awesome open architecture that allows for shiny 330s parked at our gates in Boston. As far as I know right now there is nothing stopping jetblue from doing lots of stuff with scope. It was always “assumed” they wouldn’t contract out to a regional because there is a lack of quality control. But these days that does not seem important. This company has fundamentally changed its mind on many things. The VA bid was the most obvious change, so much for only organic growth. The old jetblue is dead and I’m not sure the new one is that great.
#643
UCH Pilot
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 776
Likes: 1
From: 787
Frankly your airline isn’t big enough to need a domestic feed. So you can beat your chest about your “industry leading scope” while you rationalize accepting substandard wages while your management benefits from the highest profit margin in the industry. Yes, the big 3 have express carriers, but we also have hundreds of widebody planes. Where are your widebody planes and who is doing that Europe flying under your code?
Here’s a short list of your “partner airlines” listed on the JetBlue website: Aer Lingus, Emirates, El Al, Hawaiian, jet Suite, Cape Air, Lufthansa, South African Airlines.
The full list of 40+ airlines doing your international flying under your code can be seen here. https://www.jetblue.com/airline-partners/
Here’s a short list of your “partner airlines” listed on the JetBlue website: Aer Lingus, Emirates, El Al, Hawaiian, jet Suite, Cape Air, Lufthansa, South African Airlines.
The full list of 40+ airlines doing your international flying under your code can be seen here. https://www.jetblue.com/airline-partners/
#644
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,150
Likes: 0
From: Left,Right, Left, Right,Right,Left, Right, Left
Riiight. How Big was us air when awa purchased them? How big is Alaska? Shoot ATA had domestic feed and they were even smaller than that.
Spare me the “frankly”. 9 feeder airlines. 570 RJs. United airlines losing scope for decades. But hey! You were able To Protect those wide body rates for everyone that got 5 more years to
Fly them as you furloughed the bottom feeders. But hey thanks for the education about our international feeders. Something we’ve had zero control over for.... ah well until now. How long has United been giving away flying? How many international partners does the mighty united have?
Oh wait. I couldn’t care less.
Bye now. Enjoy your flying career.
Spare me the “frankly”. 9 feeder airlines. 570 RJs. United airlines losing scope for decades. But hey! You were able To Protect those wide body rates for everyone that got 5 more years to
Fly them as you furloughed the bottom feeders. But hey thanks for the education about our international feeders. Something we’ve had zero control over for.... ah well until now. How long has United been giving away flying? How many international partners does the mighty united have?
Oh wait. I couldn’t care less.
Bye now. Enjoy your flying career.
Frankly your airline isn’t big enough to need a domestic feed. So you can beat your chest about your “industry leading scope” while you rationalize accepting substandard wages while your management benefits from the highest profit margin in the industry. Yes, the big 3 have express carriers, but we also have hundreds of widebody planes. Where are your widebody planes and who is doing that Europe flying under your code?
Here’s a short list of your “partner airlines” listed on the JetBlue website: Aer Lingus, Emirates, El Al, Hawaiian, jet Suite, Cape Air, Lufthansa, South African Airlines.
The full list of 40+ airlines doing your international flying under your code can be seen here. https://www.jetblue.com/airline-partners/
Here’s a short list of your “partner airlines” listed on the JetBlue website: Aer Lingus, Emirates, El Al, Hawaiian, jet Suite, Cape Air, Lufthansa, South African Airlines.
The full list of 40+ airlines doing your international flying under your code can be seen here. https://www.jetblue.com/airline-partners/
Last edited by CaptCoolHand; 05-29-2018 at 02:17 AM.
#645
Frankly your airline isn’t big enough to need a domestic feed. So you can beat your chest about your “industry leading scope” while you rationalize accepting substandard wages while your management benefits from the highest profit margin in the industry. Yes, the big 3 have express carriers, but we also have hundreds of widebody planes. Where are your widebody planes and who is doing that Europe flying under your code?
Here’s a short list of your “partner airlines” listed on the JetBlue website: Aer Lingus, Emirates, El Al, Hawaiian, jet Suite, Cape Air, Lufthansa, South African Airlines.
The full list of 40+ airlines doing your international flying under your code can be seen here. https://www.jetblue.com/airline-partners/
Here’s a short list of your “partner airlines” listed on the JetBlue website: Aer Lingus, Emirates, El Al, Hawaiian, jet Suite, Cape Air, Lufthansa, South African Airlines.
The full list of 40+ airlines doing your international flying under your code can be seen here. https://www.jetblue.com/airline-partners/
Lack of scope cost me my job.
Alaska has had Horizon feed for many decades, and now also has SkyWest. Even Reno Air had feed, albeit for only 6 months!
Please don't use the term "your company", or "your airline". When I refer to UAL should I say "your lack of scope" cost me my job? As if you personally had anything to do with it. Or should I say, "your crappy furlough recall process" kept me away?
GP
Last edited by GuppyPuppy; 05-29-2018 at 03:11 AM.
#646
Banned
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,445
Likes: 0
Riiight. How Big was us air when awa purchased them? How big is Alaska? Shoot ATA had domestic feed and they were even smaller than that.
Spare me the “frankly”. 9 feeder airlines. 570 RJs. United airlines losing scope for decades. But hey! You were able To Protect those wide body rates for everyone that got 5 more years to
Fly them as you furloughed the bottom feeders. But hey thanks for the education about our international feeders. Something we’ve had zero control over for.... ah well until now. How long has United been giving away flying? How many international partners does the mighty united have?
Oh wait. I couldn’t care less.
Bye now. Enjoy your flying career.
Spare me the “frankly”. 9 feeder airlines. 570 RJs. United airlines losing scope for decades. But hey! You were able To Protect those wide body rates for everyone that got 5 more years to
Fly them as you furloughed the bottom feeders. But hey thanks for the education about our international feeders. Something we’ve had zero control over for.... ah well until now. How long has United been giving away flying? How many international partners does the mighty united have?
Oh wait. I couldn’t care less.
Bye now. Enjoy your flying career.
He is enjoying at least 40% more in earnings than you, and will continue to earn more under this AIP.
#647
Not A Janitor
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 814
Likes: 0
Frankly your airline isn’t big enough to need a domestic feed. So you can beat your chest about your “industry leading scope” while you rationalize accepting substandard wages while your management benefits from the highest profit margin in the industry. Yes, the big 3 have express carriers, but we also have hundreds of widebody planes. Where are your widebody planes and who is doing that Europe flying under your code?
Here’s a short list of your “partner airlines” listed on the JetBlue website: Aer Lingus, Emirates, El Al, Hawaiian, jet Suite, Cape Air, Lufthansa, South African Airlines.
The full list of 40+ airlines doing your international flying under your code can be seen here. https://www.jetblue.com/airline-partners/
Here’s a short list of your “partner airlines” listed on the JetBlue website: Aer Lingus, Emirates, El Al, Hawaiian, jet Suite, Cape Air, Lufthansa, South African Airlines.
The full list of 40+ airlines doing your international flying under your code can be seen here. https://www.jetblue.com/airline-partners/
#648
Banned
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,445
Likes: 0
I think he is trying to open the eyes of some of the short sighted yes voters on here to how far we have to go.
#649
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,047
Likes: 0
From: B6
Frankly your airline isn’t big enough to need a domestic feed. So you can beat your chest about your “industry leading scope” while you rationalize accepting substandard wages while your management benefits from the highest profit margin in the industry. Yes, the big 3 have express carriers, but we also have hundreds of widebody planes. Where are your widebody planes and who is doing that Europe flying under your code?
Here’s a short list of your “partner airlines” listed on the JetBlue website: Aer Lingus, Emirates, El Al, Hawaiian, jet Suite, Cape Air, Lufthansa, South African Airlines.
The full list of 40+ airlines doing your international flying under your code can be seen here. https://www.jetblue.com/airline-partners/
Here’s a short list of your “partner airlines” listed on the JetBlue website: Aer Lingus, Emirates, El Al, Hawaiian, jet Suite, Cape Air, Lufthansa, South African Airlines.
The full list of 40+ airlines doing your international flying under your code can be seen here. https://www.jetblue.com/airline-partners/
How are you buddy? How is Mesa you still trying to get out of there? Joining Freedom back in the day was not a career enhancer now was it? Those training failures are killing your chances of getting out of there bro? They gonna let you try to upgrade again for the 4th time. Those V1 cuts are your enemy. Focus on flying for now.
Two great things about JetBlue is we have no feed so when we announce a new city or a new plane it's JetBlue pilots doing the flying. Not too many airlines can boast about that. The other is that we have two aircraft types which allow you to us the airplane not only the junior base to grab seniority.
I hope all is well. Hyperboy
#650
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,047
Likes: 0
From: B6
We can (and should) go past the Presidential Emergency Board step of the RLA.
The Railway Labor Act Simplified
Isn't the mediator resolution voluntarily agreed to (e.g. surrender)?
This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.
The Railway Labor Act Simplified
Isn't the mediator resolution voluntarily agreed to (e.g. surrender)?
This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.
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