TA Reached
#781
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2015
Posts: 917
Couple of issues. First one being everything our MEC does is voted in unanimously; it's always 12-0 with little to no opposition from any other LEC members. I can honestly say that I do not understand how they can make profit sharing one of the "pillars" for this extension and then just walk away from it with we asked they said no. Personally I'd rather have 1.5 sellback and 12hrs PTO a month back but that's just me. It's always something with our MEC, how CK has a bigger picture and the rest of us are misinformed fools and none of us can see what's really happening. Vote accordingly, but at this point I'm definitely okay with a complete overhaul of our MEC and preparing for the inevitable JCBA.
.....Then do something about it! Recall your reps then or step up if you don't like it! Bu you won't, just like every other person sitting behind a keyboard b!tching and complaining. I've said it before, everyone wants to be involved now and everyone is a professional negotiator. Look at the turnout when it comes to LEC elections... how many stepped up last time and how many participated in the election process? MEC Chairman elections will be this fall... we will be over 5k pilot group by then... how many do you think will step up? How many ran for the NC committee position? It's the same crap at every airline.
As far as the "pillars", since I've heard this argument before.... So if they would have gotten pay and profit sharing, but no increase in per diem (like Spirit TA...and eating out on the road has gotten $$$), they should have walked away because they didn't achieve the per diem pillar? The same crap is going at Delta... They had several pillars, not all were achieved, so should they have not sent the TA out? Same is happening at Hawaiian...
#782
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 918
You are ok with a complete overhaul of our MEC and preparing for the inevitable JCBA......?
.....Then do something about it! Recall your reps then or step up if you don't like it! Bu you won't, just like every other person sitting behind a keyboard b!tching and complaining. I've said it before, everyone wants to be involved now and everyone is a professional negotiator. Look at the turnout when it comes to LEC elections... how many stepped up last time and how many participated in the election process? MEC Chairman elections will be this fall... we will be over 5k pilot group by then... how many do you think will step up? How many ran for the NC committee position? It's the same crap at every airline.
As far as the "pillars", since I've heard this argument before.... So if they would have gotten pay and profit sharing, but no increase in per diem (like Spirit TA...and eating out on the road has gotten $$$), they should have walked away because they didn't achieve the per diem pillar? The same crap is going at Delta... They had several pillars, not all were achieved, so should they have not sent the TA out? Same is happening at Hawaiian...
.....Then do something about it! Recall your reps then or step up if you don't like it! Bu you won't, just like every other person sitting behind a keyboard b!tching and complaining. I've said it before, everyone wants to be involved now and everyone is a professional negotiator. Look at the turnout when it comes to LEC elections... how many stepped up last time and how many participated in the election process? MEC Chairman elections will be this fall... we will be over 5k pilot group by then... how many do you think will step up? How many ran for the NC committee position? It's the same crap at every airline.
As far as the "pillars", since I've heard this argument before.... So if they would have gotten pay and profit sharing, but no increase in per diem (like Spirit TA...and eating out on the road has gotten $$$), they should have walked away because they didn't achieve the per diem pillar? The same crap is going at Delta... They had several pillars, not all were achieved, so should they have not sent the TA out? Same is happening at Hawaiian...
#783
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2012
Position: CA
Posts: 41
So, let’s conduct a poll:
How many of you posting on this topic thread have ever actually been on a Negotiating Committee?
Who amongst you has sat across the table from Airline Executives and their lawyers and conducted actual Contract Negotiations?
I’ll go first.
I have. Funny enough, one of the lawyers I argued against was none other than Ellen Ham. She’s like something out of Central Casting…
Show of hands, now.
How many of you posting on this topic thread have ever actually been on a Negotiating Committee?
Who amongst you has sat across the table from Airline Executives and their lawyers and conducted actual Contract Negotiations?
I’ll go first.
I have. Funny enough, one of the lawyers I argued against was none other than Ellen Ham. She’s like something out of Central Casting…
Show of hands, now.
#784
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: 320 F.O.
Posts: 1,386
You are ok with a complete overhaul of our MEC and preparing for the inevitable JCBA......?
.....Then do something about it! Recall your reps then or step up if you don't like it! Bu you won't, just like every other person sitting behind a keyboard b!tching and complaining. I've said it before, everyone wants to be involved now and everyone is a professional negotiator. Look at the turnout when it comes to LEC elections... how many stepped up last time and how many participated in the election process? MEC Chairman elections will be this fall... we will be over 5k pilot group by then... how many do you think will step up? How many ran for the NC committee position? It's the same crap at every airline.
As far as the "pillars", since I've heard this argument before.... So if they would have gotten pay and profit sharing, but no increase in per diem (like Spirit TA...and eating out on the road has gotten $$$), they should have walked away because they didn't achieve the per diem pillar? The same crap is going at Delta... They had several pillars, not all were achieved, so should they have not sent the TA out? Same is happening at Hawaiian...
.....Then do something about it! Recall your reps then or step up if you don't like it! Bu you won't, just like every other person sitting behind a keyboard b!tching and complaining. I've said it before, everyone wants to be involved now and everyone is a professional negotiator. Look at the turnout when it comes to LEC elections... how many stepped up last time and how many participated in the election process? MEC Chairman elections will be this fall... we will be over 5k pilot group by then... how many do you think will step up? How many ran for the NC committee position? It's the same crap at every airline.
As far as the "pillars", since I've heard this argument before.... So if they would have gotten pay and profit sharing, but no increase in per diem (like Spirit TA...and eating out on the road has gotten $$$), they should have walked away because they didn't achieve the per diem pillar? The same crap is going at Delta... They had several pillars, not all were achieved, so should they have not sent the TA out? Same is happening at Hawaiian...
#785
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,887
I couldn’t agree more with this perspective. Keyboard warriors/negotiators is all that is on here. The bottom line is this TA will pass with flying colors. It’s all get and we aren’t giving up anything then a hypothetical bargaining position that is pure perception. However, It is amusing to read all the interesting and diverse perceptions on here. Now keyboard warriors please pile on I have thick skin.
#786
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,513
So, let’s conduct a poll:
How many of you posting on this topic thread have ever actually been on a Negotiating Committee?
Who amongst you has sat across the table from Airline Executives and their lawyers and conducted actual Contract Negotiations?
I’ll go first.
I have. Funny enough, one of the lawyers I argued against was none other than Ellen Ham. She’s like something out of Central Casting…
Show of hands, now.
How many of you posting on this topic thread have ever actually been on a Negotiating Committee?
Who amongst you has sat across the table from Airline Executives and their lawyers and conducted actual Contract Negotiations?
I’ll go first.
I have. Funny enough, one of the lawyers I argued against was none other than Ellen Ham. She’s like something out of Central Casting…
Show of hands, now.
and while you were negotiating would it have made it easier or harder knowing the pilot group behind you had expectations and was willing to go to war over it.
the problem is the pilot group. The surveys were weak. The union however does a very poor job in educating the pilot group. In fact the last survey, In oct(or nov), didn’t have any questions on profit sharing. Pretty hard to put a value on it, when it isn’t asked.
#787
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2018
Posts: 704
and while you were negotiating would it have made it easier or harder knowing the pilot group behind you had expectations and was willing to go to war over it.
the problem is the pilot group. The surveys were weak. The union however does a very poor job in educating the pilot group. In fact the last survey, In oct(or nov), didn’t have any questions on profit sharing. Pretty hard to put a value on it, when it isn’t asked.
the problem is the pilot group. The surveys were weak. The union however does a very poor job in educating the pilot group. In fact the last survey, In oct(or nov), didn’t have any questions on profit sharing. Pretty hard to put a value on it, when it isn’t asked.
One substantial change I would suggest is the recognition that survey data stales fairly quickly especially in the industry events of the last 2-3 yrs. If they can manage to keep a real time quantitative pulse on the rapidly changing opinions and expectations of the pilot group that would help immensely.
Last edited by Desdi; 01-21-2023 at 08:25 AM.
#788
…One substantial change I would suggest is the recognition that survey data stales fairly quickly especially in the industry events of the last 2-3 yrs. If they can manage to keep a real time quantitative pulse on the rapidly changing opinions and expectations of the pilot group that would help immensely.
Then sell it like we’re all going to get furloughed…
#789
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2018
Posts: 704
It was the same case for LOA13 - take a survey in the fall of 2020, when there’s no vaccine and we’re only flying 10% of our schedule… then come out with an LOA four months later giving away Scope in exchange for furlough protection… when there’s a vaccine, airlines are recovering, and there’s zero chance of furloughs.
Then sell it like we’re all going to get furloughed…
Then sell it like we’re all going to get furloughed…
#790
You are ok with a complete overhaul of our MEC and preparing for the inevitable JCBA......?
.....Then do something about it! Recall your reps then or step up if you don't like it! Bu you won't, just like every other person sitting behind a keyboard b!tching and complaining. I've said it before, everyone wants to be involved now and everyone is a professional negotiator. Look at the turnout when it comes to LEC elections... how many stepped up last time and how many participated in the election process? MEC Chairman elections will be this fall... we will be over 5k pilot group by then... how many do you think will step up? How many ran for the NC committee position? It's the same crap at every airline.
As far as the "pillars", since I've heard this argument before.... So if they would have gotten pay and profit sharing, but no increase in per diem (like Spirit TA...and eating out on the road has gotten $$$), they should have walked away because they didn't achieve the per diem pillar? The same crap is going at Delta... They had several pillars, not all were achieved, so should they have not sent the TA out? Same is happening at Hawaiian...
.....Then do something about it! Recall your reps then or step up if you don't like it! Bu you won't, just like every other person sitting behind a keyboard b!tching and complaining. I've said it before, everyone wants to be involved now and everyone is a professional negotiator. Look at the turnout when it comes to LEC elections... how many stepped up last time and how many participated in the election process? MEC Chairman elections will be this fall... we will be over 5k pilot group by then... how many do you think will step up? How many ran for the NC committee position? It's the same crap at every airline.
As far as the "pillars", since I've heard this argument before.... So if they would have gotten pay and profit sharing, but no increase in per diem (like Spirit TA...and eating out on the road has gotten $$$), they should have walked away because they didn't achieve the per diem pillar? The same crap is going at Delta... They had several pillars, not all were achieved, so should they have not sent the TA out? Same is happening at Hawaiian...
I drove 5 hours round trip during the FLL recall vote, and while I have no issues personally with any of the LEC guys at the time, I didn’t agree with their positions on our MEC. My issue is this wasn’t a negotiation, nothing was to be given away. It was told to us compensation and profit sharing were the target. I don’t like that the target wasn’t met so I’m a no vote. I’m tired of the we will get them next time mantra and excuses; it will continue forever ad nauseam.
Last edited by stanherman; 01-21-2023 at 03:14 PM.
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