Originally Posted by thrufru

So, let’s conduct a poll:

How many of you posting on this topic thread have ever actually been on a Negotiating Committee?
Who amongst you has sat across the table from Airline Executives and their lawyers and conducted actual Contract Negotiations?

I’ll go first.

I have. Funny enough, one of the lawyers I argued against was none other than Ellen Ham. She’s like something out of Central Casting…

Show of hands, now.

Originally Posted by Climbto450

I couldn’t agree more with this perspective. Keyboard warriors/negotiators is all that is on here. The bottom line is this TA will pass with flying colors. It’s all get and we aren’t giving up anything then a hypothetical bargaining position that is pure perception. However, It is amusing to read all the interesting and diverse perceptions on here. Now keyboard warriors please pile on I have thick skin.

Originally Posted by Bluedriver

Not gonna pile on you, but tell us why you think JB has offered large raises and a multi-million dollar bonus if it's not out of necessity?

Originally Posted by Desdi

In all fairness to the pilot group, this time around the MEC tried to gin the group up at the drop of a hat, as if it was an on/off switch…. Here’s a red lanyard! Labor dispute over the holidays unless we get what we want! …… nevermind here’s the best we can get ! I’m still kind of whiplashed over that, hell I was mailed a red lanyard and instructed to be enraged and to be ready for a fight however we reached the TA 2 days after I received it. Contrast that to TA1, and the failed NEA LOA where the group was energized ready to tough it out until the NC delivers something that lets the air slowly out of the tires. The MEC/NC is somewhat at fault by the inability to properly time, cultivate then harnessing that energy/frustration, more like they routinely throw a wet towel on it before it gets to critical mass in some sense betraying that energy. They keep letting the air out of the tires prematurely.

One substantial change I would suggest is the recognition that survey data stales fairly quickly especially in the industry events of the last 2-3 yrs. If they can manage to keep a real time quantitative pulse on the rapidly changing opinions and expectations of the pilot group that would help immensely.

Originally Posted by thrufru

So, let’s conduct a poll:

How many of you posting on this topic thread have ever actually been on a Negotiating Committee?
Who amongst you has sat across the table from Airline Executives and their lawyers and conducted actual Contract Negotiations?

I’ll go first.

I have. Funny enough, one of the lawyers I argued against was none other than Ellen Ham. She’s like something out of Central Casting…

Show of hands, now.

Originally Posted by MainlineFlyer

Wait, Ellen Ham!? THE Ellen Ham?! The shredder of the middle class Ellen Ham? Ellen Ham the devourer of employee pay and benefits? Wow. Just wow.

Honestly I have no idea who this person is. I'm assuming she is some kind of HR or Labor Attorney. Someone I'd expect a company to hire to represent them in negotiations involving the RLA.

I think the bigger question is why were YOU in the room? I'm assuming you were a regional captain at this point? Why does ALPA or more specifically B6ALPA stick people who obviously have no clue how to negotiate into rooms with people for whom its their whole career? We pay enough in dues to get experts in there. Yes I know that ALPA national provides experts to "advise", but ALPA national has different motivations than we should. To them our negotiations are a cost/benefit to be maximized. B6ALPA should be shopping law firms to get some experts of our own whos only interest is B6 pilots.

Originally Posted by Bluedriver

I can't believe he survived! A lot of good men went into meetings with her, only some came back out. The HORROR! And no one stopped to think of the children!

Originally Posted by Boomer

It was the same case for LOA13 - take a survey in the fall of 2020, when there’s no vaccine and we’re only flying 10% of our schedule… then come out with an LOA four months later giving away Scope in exchange for furlough protection… when there’s a vaccine, airlines are recovering, and there’s zero chance of furloughs.

Then sell it like we’re all going to get furloughed…

Originally Posted by V2500

There was no survey in 2020. They concocted 13 in totally secrecy with no pilot group knowledge or input of any kind.

Originally Posted by Desdi

Correct, the mechanism that let the camels nose into the tent….I have no doubt it was concocted with the best of intentions by the MEC given the circumstances…. But never forget what the road to hell is paved with. You need to have contrarians in any governing body (politics, corporations, hell even HOAs) to prevent stumbling into these traps. Should have only entertained the one time relief back then (as originally proposed) for a % cut of all incremental revenue brought in by the NEA that was enabled from said relief. 100 million + (as per JG) in the first year and initial phase of the NEA, the 1st year alone!!!! That’s even before the additional relief mgt sought later…. Opps we forgot to ask for these things in LOA 13, just an oversight…. It’s like Darth Vader saying “I’m altering the terms of the deal, pray I don’t alter it anymore”. I’m just tired of the MEC leadership getting hoodwinked regardless of their good intentions.