GPullR

It 100 percent had a design issue with single system triggering the mcas. However both accidents should not of resulted in crashes. Nothing more then trim runaway.

I was inverted

If it was nothing more than trim runaway, a checklist/FCOM update would have been a sufficient solution.

Bluedriver

Boeing's internal engineer emails stated that pilots would have SECONDS to properly respond to an MCAS failure, or the flight would be "unrecoverable". Yet Boeing provided no training on the system, or any procedures for dealing with an MCAS failure, let alone even mentioning an MCAS failure as a possibility.

Boeing's own engineer says pilots would have a short number of seconds to recognize and properly respond to an MCAS failure, or the flight is unrecoverable. I take the engineers analysis over yours.

sailingfun

You might review the timelines on the two accident flights and the prior flight for the first accident aircraft.

Sliceback

Have you ever been qualified on a non-FBW Boeing? Exactly how many seconds do you think you have with a 'runawy stabilizer' (old term) or 'uncommanded stabilzer movement (new term)??? Your posts either show a significant lack of knowledge or you're trying to ignore the truth - with a runaway stabilizer you have seconds before you can lose control of the aircraft. Not minutes, seconds. The MCAS failure looks like....an 'uncommanded stabilizer movement'. It has the same result - trim wheel moving uncontrollably. The corrective action that the industry thought every airline pilot knew? Turn off the stabilzer trim switches. What was the expected reaction time? I think I read 4 seconds. Slight nuances between different models but the basic steps are the same - turn the stab switches off, leave them off, maintain present airspeed or do not exceed x KIAS. Checklist. What can you do? Trim manually as the FIRST incident crew did. What did they do with this allegely fatal flaw? They continued to their destination. How fatal was this 'flaw' when a crew just 'remained calm and carried on'???

Bluedriver

You're right, it's such a non-event that they grounded the airplane for over a year, and even US pilot unions were demanding more information and training. And of course, there was the published Boeing "MCAS failure checklist/procedure" to follow, which was highlighted during the Boeing MCAS training right? And of course how could they possibly have missed the "MCAS failure" warning light and/or message!

You're right. Nothing to see here.

Bluediver

I certainly have learned a bunch about both your passion to argue a point on the internet and love of Netflix documentaries while reading your argument over some 5 pages. That said, I don’t feel that there should be no oversight. I simply commented to another that oversight could be a possible reason for the length of time it takes for inspections on GTF engines. While it may have been construed in a way that I believe that less oversight is needed that in no way was my intent. How you turned a conversation about JB buying already ordered Airbus into a Boeing conversation is interesting. If you have source knowledge of JB going Boeing it’d be great to hear about it otherwise can we get back to the undisclosed Airbus order?

Bluedriver

Ah, the old "we need oversight but it just can't slow us down" routine. Sounds like what Boeing would have said to the regulators during the MAX certification.

You are welcome to add any info regarding the undisclosed order. If you want to talk about other things or raise other points again, we can all talk about those as well.

Bluediver

How about we talk about the GTF engine issue which is not allowing for our new deliveries of aircraft that were slated to replace old aircraft before we spent money that we currently are not making refurbishing those older aircraft? How about we talk about the airline killing investor that has us clearly in his sights? You know the guy that will gladly part us out to the big four and Alaska at a percentage of 24,24,24,24 and 4 if needed to allow for us all to be sent to the streets? How about we talk about the Earhardt pad and how tight it is over there or whether or not you’d trust the Sushi in T5 any more than you would from Wal-Mart? These are all examples of things in our Lane. While I agree with you that oversight is needed at Boeing or Airbus how about oversight of DeIce procedures in BOS? Not just for the incident but for the product provided. This P&W thing is big enough that we’re not growing. Our 10 year cycle is now complete. Settle in for the long and painful next I’ll guess 3-5 because they’ll not be nearly as fun. Unless of course in my opinion we get an over turn of the decision in Jun, but then can they close before Jul 24? I guess we’ll see. Oh and as for CBA 2? That’s also kicked Far outside of the uprights now. I hope you’re correct about an order, but frankly I’ll be surprised if it is us.

Bluedriver

I have had two de-ice occurrences that were so unreal, they would sound made up. You will get no argument from me on running a tight de-ice ship.

Are you saying your opinion is that the merger decision will be reversed? Or did I read your opinion incorrectly?

I agree, Pratt and it's suppliers have made a mess of JetBlue's growth plans. And I have no illusions about our new "investor" or our CBA prospects in the short term.

As for the order, I still think it is highly likely it was placed by JB, likely contingent on the NK outcome, and was part of a package deal that included revising the delivery schedule for our previous order book. I never claimed to be 100% positive, but I remain fairly convinced. I also reserve the right to be wrong on this one. And will admit I was if another airline claims the order. Until then, we wait. I was wrong that one time before...