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Old 04-07-2019, 04:02 PM
  #11371  
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Originally Posted by CaptCoolHand View Post
No.
It’s either a limitation or it’s not.
The limitation for TO is the oil temp.
Those times on the bus are not limitations.

Also stop telling people not to reapply.
You could cost someone a job.
Show me where I told anyone not to reapply. I'll wait. (Hint: what I did say was that I have talked to people who only applied once and got hired after open windows had come and gone. My advice, in fact, was to apply every open window, just as I tell my friends. I would never steer anyone away from JB... we have enough idiots here who do that on purpose.

It IS a limitation, whether or not you choose to treat it as one, even though it's not listed in chapter two. I quoted the FCOM, it's very clear. Don't call it a limitation if you prefer, but you are supposed to comply with the book, and the books says to ENSURE you have either 2 or 5 minutes of warmup.
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Old 04-07-2019, 04:17 PM
  #11372  
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Originally Posted by Blue Dude View Post
Dude, just read the FCOM, it's not at all vague. Your opinion isn't required. Cooldown is NOT a limitation, even an unwritten one. If you arrive at the gate and 3 minutes haven't passed, you can shut them down on the ceo. You do have to wait 3 minutes for OET. It is a mandatory cooldown for the neo, even after a short taxi to the gate. None of those are limitations though, which has a specific definition, requiring strict observation and a logbook entry for exceedence. They ARE good operating practice, and you can be sure it'll be talking point if you bust them in training or during a check.
Perhaps you should actually read it to refresh your memory. You're correct, it's not at ALL vague.

"Operate engine at or near idle for 2 minutes prior to takeoff (5 minutes if the engine has been shut down for 2 hours or more)." [ 3.15.2 & 3.16.4 ]

What part of that do you interpret as an opinion? Seems pretty cut-and-dried SOP to me. You do whatever you choose though, you don't have to answer to me.

Not sure what you mean about OET and 3 minutes? 3.30.4 says "Operate the engine at or near idle thrust for 3 minutes prior to shutdown." Didn't see a 'should', 'might', 'may', or 'maybe' in there. Throw a 'will' in front of operate, and it reads the same.
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Old 04-07-2019, 05:51 PM
  #11373  
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I have yet to see a single captain here land at the islands, taxi in and keep the engines running for the 3 minutes. Weirdest training lapse ever.
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Old 04-07-2019, 05:56 PM
  #11374  
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Originally Posted by Xtreme87 View Post
I have yet to see a single captain here land at the islands, taxi in and keep the engines running for the 3 minutes. Weirdest training lapse ever.
Airbus doesn’t have the cool down. The neos will.
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Old 04-07-2019, 06:11 PM
  #11375  
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Originally Posted by hilltopflyer View Post
Airbus doesn’t have the cool down. The neos will.
This is amazing. Are you serious? That’s not what I learned in training, nor is it consistent with the FCOM. You have read the links here, right?
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Old 04-07-2019, 06:14 PM
  #11376  
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Originally Posted by Xtreme87 View Post
I have yet to see a single captain here land at the islands, taxi in and keep the engines running for the 3 minutes. Weirdest training lapse ever.
I have seen it, several times. The brake one can be blown off. But the engine one? I would not want to be the CA sitting across from a panel trying to explain why I violated SOP and cracked a sold section or otherwise ruined an engine. Far cheaper to relieve a pilot than to replace an engine.
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Old 04-07-2019, 06:23 PM
  #11377  
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Originally Posted by HighFlight View Post
This is amazing. Are you serious? That’s not what I learned in training, nor is it consistent with the FCOM. You have read the links here, right?
What the checkairmen told me last week. Had to stop a few airbus transition guys when I was a 190 FO.
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Old 04-07-2019, 06:31 PM
  #11378  
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Originally Posted by hilltopflyer View Post
What the checkairmen told me last week. Had to stop a few airbus transition guys when I was a 190 FO.
Good on you. It’s not often I have to mention the cool down period, but when I do, most CAs are willing to respect it.

And the 2/5 minute thing is why I don’t personally put much stock in OET, unless it will be a KNOWN long time (JFK, LGA, etc.). I cannot recall a time I have ever taken off and violated the 2/5 minute warm-up time. Probably a rare occurrence.

Just like many CAs won’t reset the brakes at the gate for a few extra minutes of block time, because it is against the SOP.
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Old 04-07-2019, 06:38 PM
  #11379  
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Originally Posted by HighFlight View Post
I have seen it, several times. The brake one can be blown off. But the engine one? I would not want to be the CA sitting across from a panel trying to explain why I violated SOP and cracked a sold section or otherwise ruined an engine. Far cheaper to relieve a pilot than to replace an engine.
I suggest you re-read your FCOM Vol. 1 Normal Procedures and the various caveats for engine shut down/cool down time etc.(pertaining to the Airbus). There's a reason that the NEO's 3 minute cool down time is now stressed as an absolute relative to the classic engine/IAE V2500.
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Old 04-07-2019, 06:43 PM
  #11380  
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Originally Posted by Speedbird2263 View Post
I suggest you re-read your FCOM Vol. 1 Normal Procedures and the various caveats for engine shut down/cool down time etc.(pertaining to the Airbus). There's a reason that the NEO's 3 minute cool down time is now stressed as an absolute relative to the classic engine/IAE V2500.
THe FCOM is my bible, I suggest you make it yours. Just because the NEO has a bowing issue that requires the cooldown does not negate the fact that engine cooling procedures have existed for just about every modern engine today. Including the CEOs. I will always strive to cool down for 3 minutes as Airbus has stated. You don’t have to.
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