Originally Posted by SoFloFlyer

I guess these are great for commuters? Negates the need for a CrashPad is my initial thought. I don’t know how I’d feel about those from a practical level. From the sound of it, looks like the pilots get the short end of the stick.

We can’t negotiate how a company constructs pairings (for the most pair), but maybe throw in a no in-base overnight clause in there? Thinking out loud on this one. Besides the money pilots lose, is there any pros to having these types of pairings constructed?

Originally Posted by SoFloFlyer

I guess these are great for commuters? Negates the need for a CrashPad is my initial thought. I don’t know how I’d feel about those from a practical level. From the sound of it, looks like the pilots get the short end of the stick.

We can’t negotiate how a company constructs pairings (for the most pair), but maybe throw in a no in-base overnight clause in there? Thinking out loud on this one. Besides the money pilots lose, is there any pros to having these types of pairings constructed?

Originally Posted by SoFloFlyer

We can’t negotiate how a company constructs pairings (for the most pair), but maybe throw in a no in-base overnight clause in there? Thinking out loud on this one. Besides the money pilots lose, is there any pros to having these types of pairings constructed?

Originally Posted by nuball5

I know some junior captains that are fine with them. They are too junior to hold any day turns but live local. A 16 hour BOS overnight allows them to go see the family in the middle of the trip while still collecting per diem. They’re fine giving up a few hours each month for this.

Originally Posted by Flyby1206

Not always great for commuters. Typically the day with the high productivity turn (BOS-IAH-BOS in the example) report early and finish late.

Having a clause prohibiting in-base layovers just shifts the problem slightly. It then becomes BOS-IAH-JFK day 1, then a similar pattern as the example for days 2-4. Everyone gets a 4day/20hr trip whether you’re a commuter or not.

Originally Posted by Desdi

Sure we can, going to a minimum daily 5 hrs rig from average daily 5 hr rig would instantly solve the problem as it gets rid of any financial incentive for the company to do so!

Originally Posted by Desdi

Sure we can, going to a minimum daily 5 hrs rig from average daily 5 hr rig would instantly solve the problem as it gets rid of any financial incentive for the company to do so!

Originally Posted by Flyby1206

5hr minimum day credit would still have a 4day paying 20hrs. How would this change the current issue of high productivity day 1 followed by low productivity day 2-4? 6hrs min daily would be good, making that 4day 24hrs min, which forces the company to pack a lot of block time into those 4days (likely resulting in 6am report, 2200 finish day 4). Commuters now need a hotel before and after the trip...

In the end I think TAFB rig change to 3:1 would achieve the desired effect.

A 4day reporting at 6am and duty off at 2200 on Day 4 (88hrs TAFB) would pay 29.33 hrs min credit, making this untenable for the company. There's no way they can have that long of a 4day trip and squeeze in enough block the be worth it for them.

A 4day reporting at noon and duty off at noon on Day 4 (72hrs) would be a min of 24hrs credit, which I think is doable if the company gets their act together and schedules efficiently.

A 3day reporting at 6pm and ending day 3 at 7am (37hrs) would pay 12.3hrs credit, so we'd need to make sure to retain the average daily credit of 5hrs rig.

Originally Posted by Bluediver

A 5 hr min day would be fine as the trips are made today. JFK-KIN-JFK pays 8 day one followed by 2-4 paying 15. A min day instead of average would capture that extra 3 that is stolen from you today. Of course 6 is fine too and drives them to build a more productive trip. Buyer beware though, a 24 hr productive 4 day is likely to include at least 20 hrs block. I’m rather fond of not blocking a 1000 a year.

Originally Posted by Flyby1206

Yeah, my concern is that the pairings built today would not be built with any change in rules. Instead the company will build to the lowest common denominator. Replace your KIN turn on day 1 with a 6am report for a 5hr block turn and we're right back to the problem we have today, just a longer in-base layover to "enjoy."

TAFB rigs would at least compensate based on time away from home, which is pretty important to all of us locals and commuters alike. The company can still have low productivity 4day trips, but they would have to start late in the day and/or finish early on Day 4.