BunkerF16

Again. I point you to our B6 ALPA comparison guide which will let you see what companies and aircraft we're looking at to base our positions on. You can throw whatever plane you want to make the aircraft you fly seem like it should get more money. I'm telling you, just reading the tea leaves, that you're going to be very disappointed if you think the 190 is going to get any substantial pump in pay.

Listen, you're enjoying higher QOL because you're flying it. I get it. That's the life-long decisions pilots have made for decades. More pay, bigger pay, left seat or less pay, more flexibility, better QOL (potentially).

The orders are all 321s (right now).....the trend is for more ASMs, not less. If we get smaller planes, it'll be to replace the 190, not exchange 321 orders for them.

I think it's smart to put a substantial amount of increased pay into the airframe where we are getting all the orders, and have 3/4 of our current inventory.

atrdriver

Work rules improve life and earnings more or less equally across different fleets, so let's not only focus on pay rates. Some regional airlines are way ahead of us in work rules currently. That's an embarrassment.

BeatNavy

Bus driver Bob: "320s are more profitable and more pax/revenue are on them than the 190s, so the pay should be higher. And besides, our future is all 320/321s so we shouldnt waste negotiating capital on 190s."

Frank the tank: "That's interesting Bob, if our future is 321s, and if they carry a lot more people than a 320, and if they are a lot more profitable than a 320, how much more do you get paid per hour to fly a 321 than a 320?"

Bob: "Shut up RJ driver and get your facts out of here. Bid off it if you don't like it."

Frank: "Sounds like I instead need to bid off blewjet to an airline that pays all their pilots adequately, not stay at one that might possibly one day pay 3/4ths of their pilots adequately."

CaptCoolHand

Frank gets it.

BunkerF16

Simply amazed at the inferiority complex of the 190 guys. At no point did I suggest we shouldn't pay the 190 appropriately.....as for the 321, DL pays a $10 override. Are you suggesting we should suppress the pay on the 320/321 so the 190 guys don't get their panties any more tied until then you already have yours? Let's see how this plays out. I hope the 190 gets paid north of DL 717 and the Bus gets $300 hr.....

All I'm saying is, don't count on it.....if not, you can assess if your seniority still and QOL still supercedes the increased pay the Bus will provide.

Jesus.....some of you guys need a Tony Robbins seminar to help with your self esteem problems.....

blueballs

Bunker you are the reason we all make fun of the fighter guys. You are playing a game you don't understand, why not hush up and let the negotiating team handle the negotiations. Thank god you're not on that team

BeatNavy

I think the opposite of what you are saying is true with respect to inferiority complex when equating bigger planes to bigger paychecks.

Who said suppress any pay? I think if anything I've advocated hard for increasing all pay using the latest ratified major TA as a comp. I'm using your logic about the disparity between 190/320 pay (and the likely future greater disparity) to show you how our 320/321 same pay doesn't make sense. Delta proved you can get good pay rates, even for small airplanes. $10 an hour difference across the board for cs100/320/321 is about what they have. That's a much smaller margin percentage wise than our likely future if there is no real bump to 190 pay and the 320 gets 20%. We will likely be looking at a 20-30% pay difference, up from our already too high 10% difference.

If I was #1 in the company, and I liked the schedule of the 190 better, I would want to fly the 190 if pay was not a consideration. The only thing most of us care about in this industry is pay and time off. And the size of the airplane shouldn't affect that. Seniority and longevity should affect it. And there are zero good arguments to counter that. Tell me some more other than "That's how it's always been. Bigger is better. More people. More revenue. More profit. ALPA/NMB say so." Or explain how any of those are valid. Or explain how wanting and justifying equal pay raises for 1/4th of the pilot group demonstrates inferiority complex. So far, you haven't been able to. Remember how those F15 and B1 drivers made more than you viper guys in their bigger planes? I don't either.

BunkerF16

UPS is the extreme of your example if I'm not mistaken. They have CA pay and FO pay. The airframe is irrelevant. The problem many people are doing is tying the 190 pay to the 320 pay. This is what JB did initially ***. The way I think it should be, and the way I would suspect the NC is going about it, is comparing like-airframe across the industry and self-identifying our peer group.

I keep going back to the comparison guide, but that was sent out for 2 reasons. One, to educate us as to where we sit across the board in comparison with our peers. Not just in pay, but vaca, sick, insurance, retirement, work rules, etc...

The other thing is to show who we as a JB pilot group believe our peers are, and what airplanes we're specifically comparing. For pay, the only real variables are airlines, and aircraft. Take a look at the 320/321 airlines/aircraft and the 190 airlines/aircraft that OUR NC committee is using, then come back and tell me where they think we sit in comparison with our peers and where you think the preponderance of resources are going to be allocated.

pilotpayne

You know why I fly the 190?

Hmmmm

I don't have great qol as a jr reserve captain I fly it for the MONEY. If I wanted qol I would have stayed an FO or go be a bus FO.

That's fine why go for the 717 rates at Delta or the C rates let's just keep the 190 pay where it is. Good plan

I could be wrong but I get the sense you are bitter that the 190 pay is tied to the bus and since JetBlue at first had such crap 190 pay to fix that they needed to bring the 190 way up. The bus didn't get that raise. To be honest with you if the made the bus equal to Delta pay and left the 190 where it is you would vote yes wouldn't you?
I won't vote for a contract that would leave a huge chunk of our pilots behind. I could bid the Bus if that pay went way up but that is not the point which is what everyone is saying. We are doing this thing from scratch let's do it right the first time.

BlueJetDork

The industry basis pay upon Aircraft Categories.

There is one outlier in this universe of ours but that doesn't change the fact that the industry basis base pay upon aircraft categories.

In fact each contract section operates in the same manner. There will be one or two outliers but the orbit is very closely spaced and accomplish or protects us from the nearly the same issue or problem.

We don't need to align with the outliers.

The company tired to fly Status Pay by the pilot group in 2006 and it was hammered down simply by using the data from our peers.