flyinaway411

simply tiresome, thats all.

RJSAviator76

Thanks for the well-wishes, but just a small correction... I'm not flying for GoJet... I'm starting CAE for my corporate gig next week after not having flown since October.

No more 121 for me!

Telling you, the world is way bigger than TSA and GoJet. The pressing issues are much more important than just GoJet and TSA. The sooner you realize it, the better off you'll be.

laxflier

Hope it works out... I realized the small things actually count a lot more than you think... Pressing issues usually start from things deemed too small to worry about. Anyway. I have been doing this a long time. The gjet issue may be small to some, but it will come around long after some think its over. This whole industry has gone south to where we are bus drivers with no career advancement. Gone are the days of respect, both in wages and career.
And josh.... Shut up. Insights like yours are useless, like your career at gjets. Put a few years in this business, get your head out of the sand and be that big boy that you always wanted to be and realize that other views are always going to occur and myopia is only going to hurt you...
Good luck, rsj...

Purpleanga

No dude, that is why this industry will continue a death spiral. Because of people like jforte and company. The sooner you guys realize that you are worthless to Gojet or any other bottom feeder the better. But hey you are probably fine with being worthless to begin with and will be fine with fly CRJ700s for bus driver wages if you had the opportunity.

Purpleanga

Well which is it? Do you want to pay the bills and put some crumbs on the table for your family or stay current?? Make up your mind because you can't do both at Gojet.

Purpleanga

When is your class date? Why are you still here trying to justify your actions, do you have guilt? I thought you didn't care that most pilots will black list your if not officially, unofficially.... I thought I made it clear that no one is going to stop you from going to Gojet. Why are you still trying to get our approval by trying to sound like you know what you are talking about through your experience as a pt135 pilot flying a baron. Just say you want to fly that shinny CRJ700 and be over with it. What other reason could you possibly have since you actually already have a job?

RJSAviator76

Purpleanga, we've had discussions on other boards, namely PPW although there I go by Freight Dog... here, the name is taken by the founder.

You say this is why the industry will continue this death spiral. OK... I agree to a point - it is a SMALL FACTOR.

Once again, I challenge you, laxflier, and others to SPECIFICALLY address the REALISTIC solutions. Bashing people going there isn't helping you, me, our profession, our cause. If anything, it causes further division, especially in today's economy.

Let me put it this way, GoJet fight was lost the minute ALPA decided not to appeal the NMB ruling. What's left are lessons learned and how you apply them.

I was at Aloha when GoJet was initially formed, and I looked at it with the same disgust that you have towards it. After TSA ALPA lost the court case, we added language to our scope clause to specifically preclude the company from doing exactly that. In other words, we added a whole section to our scope clause that addressed what happened to TSA and to preclude it from happening at our airline.

Another thing I bring up in this whole discussion is the proliferation of RJ's and the contract feed whipsaw. It always comes at the expense of mainline jobs. The cat is out of the bag. How we deal with it FROM THIS POINT ON is ultimately what matters. Browbeating regional pilots who are flying that contract feed is not the answer. Doing so doesn't serve any good purpose for us as pilots and only serves the interests of the management and bean counters. It's the same thing with the GoJet situation. GoJet is the battle that is lost, and acknowledged as lost by ALPA. OK, time to apply lessons learned, and move on.

Here are some questions I'd like for you and laxflier to answer:

1) What are you trying to accomplish by alienating pilots from shut-down carriers and furloughees if they go to GoJet?

2) Do you think that "blackballing" pilots who go there actually serves any purpose on a large scale considering ALPA's legal surrender?

3) What REALISTIC alternative would you offer pilots seeking positions at GoJet in today's economy? Bear in mind, asking highly experienced pilots whose carriers shut down to go work at McDonald's or anywhere but GoJet is effectively killing their careers. Also, take into account today's economy and the job situation.

4) At what point do you stop holding a grudge against GoJet and pilots going there? Be realistic and pragmatic...

I guess what I'm trying to say is that there are many constructive things we can learn from this whole fiasco, and apply them just how we did at Aloha. However, bashing GoJet pilots, especially ones hired in 2007-today, serves absolutely ZERO purpose and actually does a lot of disservice to our profession altogether.

I'd really like a detailed answer that doesn't include ramblings, but a no-b.s., realistic solution to how to preclude this from happening again.

Purpleanga

I understand gojet is here and because of mistakes of both parties, it's here to stay. However you are asking for the industry to have mercy on these pilots because it's a moot point, you are asking for the impossible. You can't reward these people. If your company is shut down, or are furloughed or simply just like to fly a shinny jet at any cost, then fine, go for it. Don't expect the rest of the industry to treat you with any respect. Frankly I think this whole issue won't matter for too long anyways, there are way too many rumors now that a merge is in the works with the loss of the AA flying for TSA.

RJSAviator76

I can definitely understand your anger towards those hired in 2005, pre-ruling. But persecuting pilots hired years after the ruling is akin to persecuting Continental pilots hired after their strike. It makes about as much sense.

Why is making peace with GoJet pilots impossible, reference the above paragraph? Should mainline guys dog you regional guys at every point because they perceive you stole their flying with your wages and work rules, or rather lack thereof? I gave you all sorts of examples in other posts.

If anything... there are many good ALPA pilots from ATA, Champion, UAL at GoJet now. Instead of dogging them, you should engage them in discussions on how to move forward. Persecuting them only does this profession further disservice because this particular battle has been lost. It's time to learn from it and prepare for another one. You do that by strengthening your scope, engaging ALPA national (aren't they working on fixing the whipsaw problem?), promoting pilot unity, etc.

This whole thing is a game of chess - don't be blinded because you lost a pawn several moves ago - keep focused and keep playing. Acknowledge the loss, and move on... keep your head in the game by anticipating your opponent's (management's) next move. Management is your opponent, not a fellow pilot. That's about all you can do.

Purpleanga

Again, it doesn't matter if Prater himself goes to Gojet. The fact of the matter is, that airline and that seniority list was created for only one reason. There aren't street pilots working for a TSH company for the hell of it. They are replacement workers for what TSA should have had. It doesn't matter if you don't agree with what happened in 05, you simply do not hire replacement workers to get around a CBA. Hulas might have "legally" created an alter-ego but if it walks like a duck, it talks like a duck, then it's a duck. Everyone has moved on but the whole senioirty list should will not receive any repect. To this day TSA is having a hard time at the negotiating table because of Gojet and what will ultimately happen is they will try to merge us and force us the subpar contract of Gojet and make it seem like they're doing us a favor. How can TSA possibly get a fair contract if it has to compete with Gojet?