Originally Posted by acl65pilot

Joe, I never was in an elected nor an appointed position for ALPA. It is my goal to change that.

I went to DAL because it is where I wanted to be. As with you my seniority was high enough that I was a CA long before this latest plague of RJs hit. I was hired at EV with a seniority number of less than 630.
I did not like what was happening at DAL when I was at ASA, and I do not like it on this side of the fence either. It is my goal to change this career and industry vector. We are driving ourselves in to the ground.

One way or another there is going to be a reckoning in this industry. Either to lower lows, or we will change it. If it keeps going this pace, many will just jump ship.

Originally Posted by JoeMerchant

That doesn't alter the fact that you used ASA to gain the qualifications to "jump" to a "career airline"....You did what was best for YOU as are ALL of us....

You are right that we did this to ourselves....I don't see any change of attitude from your side however....You still think that you own my job...That attitude will simply perpetuate this "us" vs. "them" attitude that is used by managment to get us to "bid" against one another....

Until I see a real change of attitude for BOTH ALPA and DALPA, I will do what is best for ME....regardless of how it affects YOU...

Go ahead an "jump ship" if you don't like things...I and others wish things could be better, but we are very happy with the decisions we have made. We will do what is best for us given the mistakes that were made by others.....

Originally Posted by swimheiss

Hi guys, I'm not by any means a pilot, but a longtime fan and previous Midwest customer.
I see a lot of validity to every point you all argue, but I think there needs to be an enhanced presence from the passengers to make things happen. I'm including the text of an email I just sent to RAH's customer service email address listed on their website. I know that their people will probably ignore this or send a bull**** reply, but I think we need more activism overall to help protect the dignity of the piloting profession, as well as that of the F/A's etc.
Here's the message I sent:

To whom it may concern:
I would like to congratulate all of you on your success of saving the future of Midwest Airlines. Although Midwest is a little-known niche airline in the overall industry, ownership of this airline carries some big responsibility. Midwest customers are not the traditional low-budget citizens of the "United States of Amnesia" who will willingly fly any route at the lowest price possible on whatever regional aircraft and seating arrangement happens to be available with underpaid, underqualified, and underslept flight crews happen to be available just because some freshly baked cookies happen to be available instead of peanuts or pretzels. If we wanted that, we'd fly Southwest and mobilize Grandma in advance for half the price. Midwest's business plan was based on a loyal customer base that was willing to pay more for the services they preferred. Many of these customers have deep sentiments about the beginnings of the airline with the Kimberly Clark Corporation, providing the Best Care in the Air.
I understand that you may feel that there are financial and business reasons to get rid of the widely known Midwest aircraft, flight crews, and seating arrangements. If you are truly going to go through with that, then you might as well put your cards on the table and declare the entire Midwest Airlines name and trademark dead and gone. Anything else is just putting lipstick on a pig.
As a former Midwest customer, I will miss the service and quality of experience that I received while flying with Midwest. For a premium of about 30% over comparable coach arrangements, I was able to consistently experience a first class flight with first-class accommodations.
As much as I will miss flying with the former Midwest Airlines, please do not expect me or people like me to be dumb enough to hang on to the brand out of nostalgia. Unless the aircraft, flight crews, and seating arrangements are brought back, consider the brand dead.
Thank you for your time and consideration.

Now I know some of you who are reading this are current RAH pilots and may be deeply offended, but rather than giving me a nasty reply, lets see you suck it up and fight your management to let the MEH pilots into your seniority list with wages that are at least within range of what they previously received. If not, then lobby really hard to eliminate everything that says "Midwest" on every plane, in every terminal, and on every piece of marketing. There is little room for middle ground on this.
I apologize in advance for my tone, and thank you for your time.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot

Yes, joe there was self preservation their. I was doing what was best for me and my family. I went to the airline that I felt had the best chances of coming close to what my career expectations are.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot

As for me wanting to steal your flying. No, I want DAL to take the flying it outsourced back. How that is done and who it entails has yet to be determined.
Pilots here have realized that selling out the flying that pays less is hurting them. There has been a course reversal in the way pilots here think. They realize that if they look at the pocket book and not scope, then before long you will not have either. Many get this.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot

I figured you would see if differently. You scream how ALPA has screwed it up and you are glad to be done with this, but if DAL or any other airline recaptures some of their flying, doesn't that restore unity and end some of the end fighting in this profession?

Originally Posted by acl65pilot

Also, when you were hired like me at ASA you did not have a career expectation of making 120K a year flying a 76 seat jet around. Yes, we have the 146 but only five of them, the best people were shooting for was to get in and get out in a few years and move on to the majors. That is still the same today. As I have pointed out, the life style etc does not compare. But when it comes to the career expectations when you or I walked though the door at ASA. I was hoping for a few years on the 120 and then to DAL. These RJ's changed that. It was a decade, and now that I am here, everything is about five to ten years farther away.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot

It is not that I want your job Joe, I want your job to be a Delta job, not a DCI job. In effect I want DAL to put DAL pilots in its jets. It is nothing against the group of pilots at DCI. Do not make this personal.

I do not want to fight you, and will not fight you. For someone you who hates everything ALPA stands for, may be you should work the rest of your professional life fixing it. In effect separating yourself from it becomes part of the problem.

Originally Posted by swimheiss

As a former Midwest customer, I will miss the service and quality of experience that I received while flying with Midwest. For a premium of about 30% over comparable coach arrangements, I was able to consistently experience a first class flight with first-class accommodations.
As much as I will miss flying with the former Midwest Airlines, please do not expect me or people like me to be dumb enough to hang on to the brand out of nostalgia. Unless the aircraft, flight crews, and seating arrangements are brought back, consider the brand dead.
Thank you for your time and consideration.

Now I know some of you who are reading this are current RAH pilots and may be deeply offended, but rather than giving me a nasty reply, lets see you suck it up and fight your management to let the MEH pilots into your seniority list with wages that are at least within range of what they previously received. If not, then lobby really hard to eliminate everything that says "Midwest" on every plane, in every terminal, and on every piece of marketing. There is little room for middle ground on this.
I apologize in advance for my tone, and thank you for your time.

Originally Posted by Fly4hire

Perhaps what needs to be done is a grass-roots effort by the Milwaukee populace to boycott Midwest as personified by RAH. Most of the former Midwest pilots and employees are your friends, neighbors, fellow Milwaukee citizens, and tax payers. The former Midwest was true gem and local brand to be proud of.

Unless the former employees get to be part of the "new" Midwest I would advocate a movement to not give them your business. One could make the claim that other airlines were not that to begin with so what's the difference? The difference is that they are not essentially foreigners capitalizing on the reputation of a "local" brand.

Either let them compete as their own brand against other out-of-town'ers, hire the former employees as you propose, or don't give them your business.

Originally Posted by Dirty Rat

Good point. What most people don't realize is that there would not be the brand had it not been for the people who created that brand and won award after award. Something the "new Midwest employees, a.k.a. as Republic, will never ever achieve. They are nothing but cheap replacements who are willing to undercut those that paved the way for them. I for one will never let my family fly on any Republic flight. NOt only do I detest them, I question some of their standards.

Originally Posted by thevagabond

Careful rat, slander is a real crime.