bigbusdriver

That just proves you hear what you want to hear. If this had been signed by anybody else today you would be screaming bloody murder.

The contract was late. It didn't have full retro. It allowed a massive scope concession on RJ (my issue with it). LOA 46 had a bigger affect on me than most of these other past gone issues that are being rehashed today.

He emphasizes that the time value of money is more important than anything in achieving gains now and also that work rules aren't retroactive and that working with management to achieve these things and making ourselves relevant is also important. He goes on to say how important we are in pattern bargaining and points out that the other airlines are behind us (again).

This forum has vilified those who wrote the same things in 2012.

The only difference in this letter espousing the value of time and money and working with management is that C2012 was six months early and C2K was too late and a dollar short.

zoomiezombie

I think this is going to be a weird go around

If you were hired 2010+ then all you know is steady improvements.

If you were hired 2000+ into the furlough group (assuming you didn't have a crisis that you have not recovered from {and many did}) you should be sitting on a million or so in retirement assets already. There are many on here who have bought planes and boats instead. The 2000+ hires suffered through not collecting C2K pay for the better part of 4 years and have had steady raises since we exited BK.

The deadzoners want payback based on an elusive restoration number and want someone to say it to make them feel better. I don't know what the numbers are on a deadzoner and his note and claim, stock and PGBC but if I can rack away a million+ then there's no reason someone making double couldn't do the same.

I couldn't begin to guess what our former red tails want in the retirement bucket.

I don't own a plane/boat/2 exes and have almost paid off all my debts including my home in order to make sure my retirement is funded.

The pilot group is split into 4 distinct groups already just on retirement alone. I still fly with guys that say we gave too much money to reserves on the last contract and they were the guys making C2K pay while guys were on furlough.

We should all try to be more like Koi and not live beyond our means.

Carl Spackler

No it doesn't. It shows how far individual airlines fell and how much had to be recovered. Southwest shows the smallest gain because they fell the least (meaning, they never fell period). USAirways gained the most because they fell the most. Delta fell a massive amount. Thus there was a ton to recover...which we're not close to doing given our strategy of COLA pay increases.

Also, would have liked to see Hawaiian in that chart. They actually used a different tactic by telling the BK judge to go pound sand...and their second offer was much, much better. How's that for a strategy!

Giving up early and accepting the first offer before Section 6 negotiations even begin will always show results Alfa. That's not the question. The question is: Is that what the pilots asked DALPA to do for them?

Yawn.

I could well be in the minority. I just don't know. You know what would help prove it though?

1. Release the C2012 survey results.
2. Release the C2012 opener exchanged with management
3. If those documents show you got us COLA raises, profit sharing cuts and 70 more jumbo RJ's because that was the pilot group's priority, then you're right. I'm in the minority.

Carl

Carl Spackler

I truly don't know what you're talking about tsquare. What did Dave Stevens do or say that affected you and other south guys and cost you a ton of money?

Carl

Carl Spackler

No I wouldn't be. C2K restored Delta pilots' buying power from decades earlier. If you do THAT and do it in a timely fashion, now the time value of money has meaning. If it's just COLA increases, then you're using the time value of money argument to hide the fact that our "union" doesn't wish to expose itself to any labor risk whatsoever. Which is exactly what RA (our MEC chairman) said. I would have been upset about the scope giveaway however, and for that I would have voted NO.

I wasn't here then so I don't know.

See above. TVM alone isn't a strategy. It's an excuse.

No it's not the same thing when you're comparing it to C2012's COLA increases fully funded by concessions in other areas.

Lots more differences than that bud.

Carl

tsquare

Of course you don't.

Carl Spackler

Oh well, I tried. Can anyone else chime in on what tsquare is referring to?

Carl

DAL 88 Driver

I'm not sure, but I'm guessing he's referring to when we first tried to get an SLI deal and the fNWA guys turned it down. If I remember correctly, that deal was slightly better than what we ended up with. But don't hold me to that because I really don't remember it that well. Anyway, water under bridge as far as I'm concerned and also not really related to this particular discussion. Just another tsquare straw man.

Carl Spackler

OK. Gotcha.

Carl

Timbo

Show me your math on the red highlighted above and are YOU sitting on a Million+ today?

When were you hired, and how much did you lose?