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Bottom of SWA or bottom of new American?

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Bottom of SWA or bottom of new American?

Old 11-26-2013, 07:57 PM
  #171  
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Originally Posted by shoelu View Post
Umm, the seniority list is already out and set in stone. All new hires will obviously go to the bottom of the list.
But from a practical standpoint, that's what's happening correct? Yes the list is set, but as AirTran transitions over, all that means is a swa new hire continues to be pushed further and further down. Bad for bidding.
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Old 11-26-2013, 10:46 PM
  #172  
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Originally Posted by ghilis101 View Post
But from a practical standpoint, that's what's happening correct? Yes the list is set, but as AirTran transitions over, all that means is a swa new hire continues to be pushed further and further down. Bad for bidding.
So using that logic, why would you go to American if you are just going to be pushed down the ISL by all the US Air Pilots after the merger?

The only difference is that the SWA and Air Tran integration is taking longer vs. all at once. At least with SWA you can bid a little better for a short period of time vs. getting 1400 guys put in front of you all at once.
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Old 11-26-2013, 10:48 PM
  #173  
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Originally Posted by Flys135s View Post
So using that logic, why would you go to American if you are just going to be pushed down the ISL by all the US Air Pilots after the merger?

The only difference is that the SWA and Air Tran integration is taking longer vs. all at once. At least with SWA you can bid a little better for a short period of time vs. getting 1400 guys put in front of you all at once.
No the big difference is swa is hiring a couple hundred then staying stagnant. AA is hiring indefinitely. You'll have a couple thousand guys underneath you at AA in a few years vice a handful at swa
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Old 11-26-2013, 11:45 PM
  #174  
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Originally Posted by ghilis101 View Post
No the big difference is swa is hiring a couple hundred then staying stagnant. AA is hiring indefinitely. You'll have a couple thousand guys underneath you at AA in a few years vice a handful at swa

I just turned my crazy 8-Ball upside down and it said "maybe"
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Old 11-26-2013, 11:51 PM
  #175  
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Originally Posted by Flys135s View Post
I just turned my crazy 8-Ball upside down and it said "maybe"

Hahahah indeed it's a crapshoot. I should point out that I love SWA. They're the best paid 737 pilots in the industry, they have a great positive culture, and they're here to stay. The decision to go to AA would only be based on long term growth, international structure and the ability to go wide body, and pay and benefits that are scheduled to meet and exceed that of swa by 2016. I know that I may have offended current swa pilots, but that's not my intention. If you already work for swa you're sitting pretty, you've got a nice cushion of AirTran pilots underneath you. If you're a potential new hire, you gotta go where there's movement, AA looks like a winner here.

Also, for those who choose to go to swa I think it's still a good financial decision. Plus it takes one more pilot out of the competition pool for a legacy carrier, so I thank you in advance

Last edited by ghilis101; 11-26-2013 at 11:52 PM. Reason: Typo
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Old 11-27-2013, 04:40 AM
  #176  
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Originally Posted by Flys135s View Post
I just turned my crazy 8-Ball upside down and it said "maybe"
This is win.
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Old 11-27-2013, 05:25 AM
  #177  
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Originally Posted by ghilis101 View Post
No the big difference is swa is hiring a couple hundred then staying stagnant. AA is hiring indefinitely. You'll have a couple thousand guys underneath you at AA in a few years vice a handful at swa
I've got no crazy 8 ball, but I think Ghillis is right. At swa, you go to the bottom with a long wait for progression. At AA, you go to the bottom, but will progress much faster. If the SLI includes the arbitrated LCC list, you progress even faster. To me, it's a no brainer if you have the choice...AA.
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Old 11-27-2013, 07:17 AM
  #178  
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Ghillis is spot-on. Both new, off-the-street hires, will be dealing with a major with merger growing pains and related issues. However, at AA, the average captain age (post-merger) is much older than hired Captain age at SWA (post-merger).

with that said, AA (if the captain age theory is correct) should have a quicker move up the seniority chain. Plus, additional attractions like multiple airplanes, international destinations, etc tip the scales in AA favor.

at this point (2013), there is really no (in my opinion) attractiveness of SWA over AA. You want to stay domestic ? I am sure you can work that out at AA. "Financial security" of the company ? SWA yes, (they are not Ch.11), but long term crystal ball is anybody's guess.

those who think "SWA is bulletproof" need to look at history and study Pan Am and TWA. So, today, going to the "bulletproof" company, may not be any guarantee. In addition, I think there is opportunity in confusion and chaos, and for that I would feel that AA has opportunity.

I would go AA if it were me.
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Old 11-27-2013, 09:49 AM
  #179  
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I've said it before...if you are think AA's pay rates of 2018 are 100% guaranteed to be there in 4 yrs, then you haven't followed this industry very long (why does everyone assume SWA is getting no pay raises in the next 4yrs and is only hiring 250 this year??? I can't predict the future but I bet they get a pay raise or two before 2018 and I bet they hire more than just the 250 this yr). Do the math on the first 4 yrs of pay on a 737, I bet SWA pays significantly more. What if SWA has a base you can drive to and AA doesn't? There are more "ifs" associated with AA (if this happens and if this happens then I will be the highest paid 777CA 10 yrs after being hired). I think with SWA, you have alot less "ifs"...sure you may only be a 737FO in 15 yrs but for some, that's ok if you know it's with a company that has shown nothing but stability for 30 yrs, AA can't say that. If you think Doug Parker is a better CEO than Gary Kelly, AA is the place for you. I agree, the stagnation at SWA will probably be much worse than the "projected lack of stagnation" at AA but my crystal ball says go with whoever hires you first, has a base you can drive to, and who has shown some stability. If you must fly widebodies internationally, AA is your only choice. Choose wisely and not based of the advice of people on the internet. Let us know how the choice worked out 30 yrs from now...
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Old 11-27-2013, 12:42 PM
  #180  
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Originally Posted by hjs1971 View Post
I can't predict the future but I bet they get a pay raise or two before 2018
two pay raises in less than 48 months ? In ??? 30 days we are in 2014.

you said "before" so in 2014 thru 2017, two raises ?
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