Mesa issues warn notice to pilots
08-26-2020, 08:00 AM
#271
In a land of unicorns
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Whale FO
Posts: 6,508
Originally Posted by Aeronaut55
Understood. But if there is a date on it..and it specifically says temporary..with the expiration date..doesn’t everyone have to come back to the table at that point to decide what’s next? Can’t it buy at least some time? And then if not extended at that point reverts to the contract?
And boom, now your temporary MOU is the starting point for the tug of war.
08-26-2020, 08:02 AM
#272
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 60
Originally Posted by boeingdvr
Everyone gets furloughed as an airline pilot during their career. It’s a rite of passage. Deal, move on, and tell the story one day.
08-26-2020, 08:05 AM
#273
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Posts: 667
Originally Posted by Aeronaut55
Understood. But if there is a date on it..and it specifically says temporary..with the expiration date..doesn’t everyone have to come back to the table at that point to decide what’s next? Can’t it buy at least some time? And then if not extended at that point reverts to the contract?
08-26-2020, 08:09 AM
#274
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 60
Originally Posted by tonsterboy5
Then what happens if Cares 2 passes and you have agreed to a lower rate for the entirety of the cares extension? Do you think the company will bring you back up to normal mins or pocket the difference?
08-26-2020, 08:09 AM
#275
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 925
Originally Posted by tonsterboy5
Then what happens if Cares 2 passes and you have agreed to a lower rate for the entirety of the cares extension? Do you think the company will bring you back up to normal mins or pocket the difference?
Last edited by terks43; 08-26-2020 at 08:25 AM.
08-26-2020, 08:40 AM
#276
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 205
Originally Posted by airspeedsalive
I’m going to withdraw from all of this.
But, just speaking for myself I’ve had a hard time making ends meet on our contractual guarantee, to go on with a lower guarantee for another 3-6 months would be a real problem. I’m a relatively junior captain (possibly within downgrade range) and I fly with a lot of junior guys. They do a good job and I enjoy flying with them and I wouldn’t wish a furlough any any of them or their families, but these things happen. Would a reduction actually be temporary? I’d say probably. Would it buy some time? Maybe. But once you start giving things away it’s a vey slippery slope. Negotiating and penny pinching is management’s full time job - they are very good at it. In my opinion if management wants something from the pilot group, it’s usually not in our best interest. Paranoid? Maybe a little it’s tempered by experience.
But, just speaking for myself I’ve had a hard time making ends meet on our contractual guarantee, to go on with a lower guarantee for another 3-6 months would be a real problem. I’m a relatively junior captain (possibly within downgrade range) and I fly with a lot of junior guys. They do a good job and I enjoy flying with them and I wouldn’t wish a furlough any any of them or their families, but these things happen. Would a reduction actually be temporary? I’d say probably. Would it buy some time? Maybe. But once you start giving things away it’s a vey slippery slope. Negotiating and penny pinching is management’s full time job - they are very good at it. In my opinion if management wants something from the pilot group, it’s usually not in our best interest. Paranoid? Maybe a little it’s tempered by experience.
08-26-2020, 10:05 AM
#277
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 925
Originally Posted by Aeronaut55
Thank you for this. I see your point. Everyone’s circumstances are different. Fortunately, I’m in better shape than most..I can ride out a while at reduced pay but I realize many can’t. It just seems like in this “new world” a job is better than no job. I just wish there was a way..but I guess that’s a utopian way of thinking..people are going to lose everything they’ve worked for..people will have to leave the country. It all just sucks. Protect the weak..get back to living life while being careful. Why is that so hard!! :/
08-26-2020, 10:40 AM
#278
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Posts: 667
Originally Posted by terks43
You mean like the first one that came out just before CARES 1 and was immediately voided by both the union and company? I don’t agree with the concessions, mostly because I don’t think the company has a leg to stand on I mean they haven’t even done a warn act notice so I’ll call their bluff, but that was a useless “point” you just made there considering that’s exactly what happened 5 months ago and guess what? It went back to normal.
08-26-2020, 11:53 AM
#279
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Position: CRJ9 CA
Posts: 4,083
Originally Posted by tonsterboy5
don’t count on it happening again.
I was for the original MOU at the time. I was relieved when it was rescinded by both sides. That said I have been in favor of a very limited MOU with reduced credit to eliminate furloughs. Talking with people though has rapidly changed my mind. That and living on min pay for the last 4 months. We can't give on the min. We CAN limit the max though to save the co money and allow them to assign more open time to the ample reserves instead of putting it out for pick up. Things like that, some better VLOA credit etc would help the company. Anything we do has to have language that will "encourage" the company to bring back those furloughed faster.
08-26-2020, 12:29 PM
#280
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2019
Posts: 1,538
I beg all of you for reduced hours or rates, even if temporary, to research what happened to the Northwest Airlines pilots in 1993. Bankruptcy filed, reduced credit and lower pay rates made permanent, and pilots ending up on strike in 1998 to get back some of what they lost while the company was posting record profits. Please don't let your short term fears destroy your long term prospects.
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