Slaveaway

That's a fantastic idea.

Out Of Trim

I never claimed to be an expert on Arizona law, as you apparently are. And, frankly, I couldn't care less whether, or not, they can legally go after you. That's not the point. The point is that if you enter into an agreement with somebody, then unless you were lied to and the other party didn't hold up to their end of the bargain, you should honor yours. That's just the right thing to do. It doesn't matter whether, or not, the other party can use the law to force you to because they shouldn't have to do that.

I can assure you that I'm NOT pro-management. Far from it. What I am though is pro me being able to sleep at night. If everybody took the mindset that it's OK to screw somebody simply because you can get away with it then what kind of world would that be? I know that there's a lot to be desired as far as things that can be improved here. But, let's address those each at face value and on their own merits, OK? As far as training goes and the contract, they make it perfectly clear that they expect you to stay for at least one year. For their end of it, they promise to train you to ATP standards while receiving a type rating in the CRJ or 175. And they do. That is ALL that is promised with the contract. Nothing more, nothing less and, in that regard, they keep their end of the bargain. If you want to subsequently turn around and use everything else that you find you don't like about the company as justification to welch on the deal, then that's on you. While I might completely agree that all the rest sucks, I can't self-justify breaking the deal when it's only tenets have, in fact, been met. The rest is extraneous. Sorry, if we disagree but I don't roll that way. And, when I give a handshake there's absolute certainty behind it where yours, IMO, is about as useless as a soup sandwich.

Slaveaway

If you really want to talk about integrity and holding up ones end of a bargain: when I was hired in 2015 it was agreeded up I would have to get my own mount, IPad and would receive $22 per hour at 75 hours per month while in training. That's it. No extra cash for food. Fast forward to 2016 and new hires are receive $1,000 additional cash per month while in training free iPads and mounts without it being negotiated (certainly no bargaining between management and the pilot group already on property).
Point is the company is expected to hold up their end of a "deal" by not giving free handouts behind the pilot groups back.

Slaveaway

Let's say you get married; you're committing the rest of your life with this one person. It's a deal, a contract. Well sometimes years down the road life happens and you get this thing called a divorce, essentially breaking a contract. Are you telling me you don't trust any divorcee because he/she "didn't hold up their end of a bargain"? Same thing with Mesa. Life happens, and better opportunity exists.

Out Of Trim

Concerning my reading comprehension, what can I say ... I just read it exactly as you wrote it.

I'm still trying to figure out, however, why you would come to the conclusion that it's OK to screw one employer you're with just because you perceive that some other employer is screwing their employees ... as in your example of reneging on a training contract you entered into with your present employer because some other airline has a habit of hiring and then furloughing (which isn't entirely true BTW).

Is it fair to quickly bail for a greener pasture as you mentioned? Absolutely. Even if they sank a sizeable amount into your training? Absolutely. If you signed a training contract that prohibits that? Absolutely not.

As for the list of regionals with training contracts ... fair enough. I'll see what I can do because it's been a while since I was last in the job shopping market and, as wide-open as things are right now, perhaps things have changed somewhat. Bear in mind though ... just because they don't state anything about it on their websites or because it isn't mentioned on APC doesn't mean one doesn't exist. When I considered switching a while back I didn't hear a thing about it until I was in the interview and then it was an "oh, by-the-way" thing. I'll reach out to some buds in several other lines to find out if they still do actually have them in place. Give me a little time though, this isn't my only job.

BTW, ex-navy here so I guess this is only normal ...

Out Of Trim

Good on ya for manning up. Whether or not any of that cash you're putting back ever makes it somehow into the rest of our pockets might be in doubt, but you can know you did the right thing. Sorry to hear you're leaving. It sounds like you're exactly the sort that they need to do more to keep around here. Best of luck!

Out Of Trim

I see your point. I never said that it's unequivocably (sp?) wrong to leave one job for another. And if that's the only thing that can make you happy then, by all means, you should go. Just like choosing to end the marriage. That's a far better alternative than sticking around and ultimately killing each other. If prolonging your stay in your present job has you so miserable that you're causing others around you to be unhappy too then, heck yeah, it's time to go. But, that shouldn't let you off the hook from having to uphold a training contract anymore than leaving the marriage should absolve you from some other similarly associated financial responsibility. If you're not sure what that means, exactly, go ask anyone paying child support. When we make our choices in life, unfortunately there's occaisionally an unforseen cost of living with them. Finding yourself having to leave a job in order to stay happy could feel similar to a divorce, I suppose. But, if given the alternative of one or the other I'll definitely go with switching jobs. That's why I think you have to be a lot more understanding of the person needing a divorce. Trust me, been there. To try to take the comparison any further than this though is impossible because the two really aren't the same since the training contract is financially binding with little or no emotional component whereas the marriage is the other way around ... unless maybe you married a hooker.

Skyler02

Training an employee to do the job that you hired them to do is the cost of doing business. Additionally, it is a common understanding that the low first year pay of airlines is because of the training cost the company is going to incur. That is why in many airlines, you see compensation go up substantially in year two.

Skyler02

So, we can get back to my original thought/statement.

New prospective pilots, be aware that Mesa is the only regional that I know of that still requires a training contract. Republic, one of the last regionals with a training contract, dropped theirs a year ago because prospective new hires refused to sign one.

When speaking with a Mesa recruiter, ask if the training contract is still required. If it is, ask them to call you back when it is no longer required.

Life happens and we are in a constantly changing environment. If you have to leave Mesa for any reason, you don't want to be charged any portion of that $12K. If you haven't signed a training contract, it won't be an issue.

HighFlight

Shouldn't your balance be less? $1,000 per month reduction, you say you worked for 11.5 months? Unless you signed your promissory note after training?

You did sign a note, right? I remember reading far back in the Mesa thread that some classes never even signed one. They have no contract for the training cost. You might be able to use that to get out of all or part of your remaining balance, in a proper and legal way.

If not, paying a debt you signed is never a bad thing to do, and 20 years from now, you won't have that monkey looking you in the face when you look over your shouler.