New Mesa Thread
03-01-2016 | 02:13 PM
#4961
Covfefe
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,001
Likes: 0
The only regional that doesn't require them that I'm aware of is SkyWest. There may be a few others but, actually, many if not most are requiring training agreements. And, I fail to see how somebody would consider that to be unfair.
First of all, when you consider all of the costs involved in training somebody to the point where they're ready for IOE, $15000 to $20000 is a pretty realistic number IMO. Add in the cost of ATP-CTP and it's even more. Do you really see it as fair if somebody then leaves right afterwards to sign on with another company because they pay more or are offering a bonus? If the shoes were switched and you were the one who paid to train them I think you'd look at it a lot differently.
Secondly, since nobody forced you (when I say you, I mean that generically, I don't actually mean "you") to sign and you chose to do it then what? Should you be allowed to buy a car and then be allowed to keep it when you welch on the payments? How does one even develop that kind of mentality? The big, bad world just doesn't work that way. And, I think you're wrong ... if the entire class refused to sign then every last one of them would be shown the door while the company just waited for the next batch of more reasonable and responsible people to show up. The opportunities for employment and training are far better now industry-wide than they've ever been. In that regard, nobody has a thing to complain about. Wages are a different story though.
First of all, when you consider all of the costs involved in training somebody to the point where they're ready for IOE, $15000 to $20000 is a pretty realistic number IMO. Add in the cost of ATP-CTP and it's even more. Do you really see it as fair if somebody then leaves right afterwards to sign on with another company because they pay more or are offering a bonus? If the shoes were switched and you were the one who paid to train them I think you'd look at it a lot differently.
Secondly, since nobody forced you (when I say you, I mean that generically, I don't actually mean "you") to sign and you chose to do it then what? Should you be allowed to buy a car and then be allowed to keep it when you welch on the payments? How does one even develop that kind of mentality? The big, bad world just doesn't work that way. And, I think you're wrong ... if the entire class refused to sign then every last one of them would be shown the door while the company just waited for the next batch of more reasonable and responsible people to show up. The opportunities for employment and training are far better now industry-wide than they've ever been. In that regard, nobody has a thing to complain about. Wages are a different story though.
Mesa wants me to fly their planes the way they want me to fly them. Just like any job requiring a certain skill set, they have to pay to train me. If they run an airline such that people want to leave, it isn't the fault of the "selfish" employee who wants to find a better opportunity for himself and his family, it's the company for making a bad work environment or not stacking up against the competition with respect to pay and work rules.
You must be new to this business. For the love of God and the betterment of our profession, please refrain from such ridiculous posts.
03-01-2016 | 02:39 PM
#4962
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 274
Likes: 0
You sound like management. People leave companies all the time when they get better offers. Happens to the LCCs and even some legacies. There is no loyalty in this game...from either side. For example, let's say United hired you, you quit your old established job, you're in training, and you get furloughed. Is that "fair" of United? Every airline who has furloughed has hired until they furloughed. Happens in this industry. Give me a break. It's a free market. The answer? Offer pay/comp that is as good or better than the competition. It's a business cost. Find a list of regionals who have training contracts. There aren't any. Great mistakes I think, but they don't count. No respectable airline has training contracts. Other airlines shell out retention bonuses to keep people (they pay you to stay, instead of scaring you into paying money to stay). Think they do it for fun? No...cost of doing business. Training contracts are a sign that they have a feeling people will want to leave.
Mesa wants me to fly their planes the way they want me to fly them. Just like any job requiring a certain skill set, they have to pay to train me. If they run an airline such that people want to leave, it isn't the fault of the "selfish" employee who wants to find a better opportunity for himself and his family, it's the company for making a bad work environment or not stacking up against the competition with respect to pay and work rules.
You must be new to this business. For the love of God and the betterment of our profession, please refrain from such ridiculous posts.
Mesa wants me to fly their planes the way they want me to fly them. Just like any job requiring a certain skill set, they have to pay to train me. If they run an airline such that people want to leave, it isn't the fault of the "selfish" employee who wants to find a better opportunity for himself and his family, it's the company for making a bad work environment or not stacking up against the competition with respect to pay and work rules.
You must be new to this business. For the love of God and the betterment of our profession, please refrain from such ridiculous posts.
And, yes, if you signed the training contract and came here knowing it sucked (or even found out shortly after getting here) then you need to honor that. At the very least, you should have done your homework a little better before coming. Again, the key word being YOU. If it means having to stay a year first you should be able to do that much standing on your head.
If you want to talk about ridiculous posts then go put your big boy pants on first and come talk to me later.
03-01-2016 | 02:50 PM
#4963
Covfefe
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,001
Likes: 0
If you decide to quit to go to the majors only to be laid off is it fair? Hell yes is FAIR. And it's called "life". You made the choice, you took a risk, and you lost. Are you telling me that it's somebody else's fault other than your own if that happened? Whose? United's? ALPA's? Your neighbor's? Your dog's? Sweet Jesus man, how old are you? Three?
And, yes, if you signed the training contract and came here knowing it sucked (or even found out shortly after getting here) then you need to honor that. At the very least, you should have done your homework a little better before coming. Again, the key word being YOU. If it means having to stay a year first you should be able to do that much standing on your head.
If you want to talk about ridiculous posts then go put your big boy pants on first and come talk to me later.
And, yes, if you signed the training contract and came here knowing it sucked (or even found out shortly after getting here) then you need to honor that. At the very least, you should have done your homework a little better before coming. Again, the key word being YOU. If it means having to stay a year first you should be able to do that much standing on your head.
If you want to talk about ridiculous posts then go put your big boy pants on first and come talk to me later.
It's just as fair for you to walk out of a job for another better place, even after they paid to train you, as it is for them to furlough you right after you quit your old job and hired you. It's a risk. It's a risk that they bring you on board and you bail to greener pastures. Your reading comprehension is fantastic by the way.
Still waiting for your list of every regional except skywest that has a training contract.
03-01-2016 | 03:45 PM
#4964
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 233
Likes: 0
I signed a training contract and came here knowing what Mesa is like, and would fulfill any obligations I signed on for. You missed my point. We are talking about something completely different. We are talking about the merits of having a training contract and collectively refusing to sign one.
It's just as fair for you to walk out of a job for another better place, even after they paid to train you, as it is for them to furlough you right after you quit your old job and hired you. It's a risk. It's a risk that they bring you on board and you bail to greener pastures. Your reading comprehension is fantastic by the way.
Still waiting for your list of every regional except skywest that has a training contract.
It's just as fair for you to walk out of a job for another better place, even after they paid to train you, as it is for them to furlough you right after you quit your old job and hired you. It's a risk. It's a risk that they bring you on board and you bail to greener pastures. Your reading comprehension is fantastic by the way.
Still waiting for your list of every regional except skywest that has a training contract.
03-01-2016 | 04:03 PM
#4965
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
The only regional that doesn't require them that I'm aware of is SkyWest. There may be a few others but, actually, many if not most are requiring training agreements. And, I fail to see how somebody would consider that to be unfair.
First of all, when you consider all of the costs involved in training somebody to the point where they're ready for IOE, $15000 to $20000 is a pretty realistic number IMO. Add in the cost of ATP-CTP and it's even more. Do you really see it as fair if somebody then leaves right afterwards to sign on with another company because they pay more or are offering a bonus? If the shoes were switched and you were the one who paid to train them I think you'd look at it a lot differently.
Secondly, since nobody forced you (when I say you, I mean that generically, I don't actually mean "you") to sign and you chose to do it then what? Should you be allowed to buy a car and then be allowed to keep it when you welch on the payments? How does one even develop that kind of mentality? The big, bad world just doesn't work that way. And, I think you're wrong ... if the entire class refused to sign then every last one of them would be shown the door while the company just waited for the next batch of more reasonable and responsible people to show up. The opportunities for employment and training are far better now industry-wide than they've ever been. In that regard, nobody has a thing to complain about. Wages are a different story though.
First of all, when you consider all of the costs involved in training somebody to the point where they're ready for IOE, $15000 to $20000 is a pretty realistic number IMO. Add in the cost of ATP-CTP and it's even more. Do you really see it as fair if somebody then leaves right afterwards to sign on with another company because they pay more or are offering a bonus? If the shoes were switched and you were the one who paid to train them I think you'd look at it a lot differently.
Secondly, since nobody forced you (when I say you, I mean that generically, I don't actually mean "you") to sign and you chose to do it then what? Should you be allowed to buy a car and then be allowed to keep it when you welch on the payments? How does one even develop that kind of mentality? The big, bad world just doesn't work that way. And, I think you're wrong ... if the entire class refused to sign then every last one of them would be shown the door while the company just waited for the next batch of more reasonable and responsible people to show up. The opportunities for employment and training are far better now industry-wide than they've ever been. In that regard, nobody has a thing to complain about. Wages are a different story though.
I can accept it till I leave.
I'll do what's best for me, cause Mesa sure ain't looking out for us.
I'm taking a little more time on the job search this time and if I'm gonna live this lifestyle it's for more money and benifits I can afford.
Everyone makes their own decisions and what they can and can not stomach.
03-01-2016 | 05:05 PM
#4966
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 304
Likes: 0
Secondly, since nobody forced you (when I say you, I mean that generically, I don't actually mean "you") to sign and you chose to do it then what? Should you be allowed to buy a car and then be allowed to keep it when you welch on the payments? How does one even develop that kind of mentality?
And, I think you're wrong ... if the entire class refused to sign then every last one of them would be shown the door while the company just waited for the next batch of more reasonable and responsible people to show up. The opportunities for employment and training are far better now industry-wide than they've ever been. In that regard, nobody has a thing to complain about. Wages are a different story though.
I do agree with the fact that the opportunities for employment are far better now industry-wide than they've ever been. Therefore, if asked to sign a training contract, it's a simple decision to politely and professionally decline and go to any of the other regionals that don't require it and has much better pay and benefits.
03-01-2016 | 05:28 PM
#4967
sippin' dat koolaid
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 982
Likes: 0
From: gear slinger
I'm so tired of this damn third party myIDtravel site that American dumped us into after the takeover of Airways. Wide open flights tomorrow and got the standard "General booking error" when trying to list my mother. Whoever said it was right, American could ******* up a wet dream.
/end rant
/end rant
03-01-2016 | 05:42 PM
#4968
Living the Dream
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,795
Likes: 0
Agreed. Still don't know why they couldn't fold everyone into Wings or AA's equivalent. We're stuck with this for at least the majority of 2016; if I didn't know better I'd say it feels suspiciously like they're waging war on non-wholly-owneds.
03-01-2016 | 05:45 PM
#4969
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 132
Likes: 0
Feeling like it??? The only way it will change is if we fight for it?
03-01-2016 | 05:45 PM
#4970
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,602
Likes: 0
I'm so tired of this damn third party myIDtravel site that American dumped us into after the takeover of Airways. Wide open flights tomorrow and got the standard "General booking error" when trying to list my mother. Whoever said it was right, American could ******* up a wet dream.
/end rant
/end rant
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