The Useful PSA Thread
05-13-2015 | 04:13 PM
#4361
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I think I'll draft a letter to ALPA National. Since PSA MEC has indicated a staffing issue is brewing, and since Envoy is currently overstaffed, we would be happy to operate their airplanes here. Pilots will upgrade faster, and have real flow to a mainline career. See, we're just trying to help our PSA brothers too.....
05-13-2015 | 04:45 PM
#4362
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Joined: Dec 2013
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Wow! I haven't read through this whole thread but what an olive branch extended from PSA to Envoy pilots!! The section quoted seems to indicate a merger of seniority numbers could be possible when the pilots come over. You knew the furlough was coming at Envoy but this looks like a really good deal! This gesture should finally put to rest any further hatred between the groups. Way to go PSA Alpa! Not sure about what could be done regarding flows though?? Has that been discussed?
05-13-2015 | 04:53 PM
#4363
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Envoy isn't furloughing. The staffing is pretty close to where it needs to be. If anything, it is a bit understaffed for the current place in the drawdown schedule.
The only way envoy pilots would ever consider transferring is with DOH. PSA will likely never accept that, and I can't blame them.
That being said, neither side needs this transfer of pilots, and it will likely go no where.
The only way envoy pilots would ever consider transferring is with DOH. PSA will likely never accept that, and I can't blame them.
That being said, neither side needs this transfer of pilots, and it will likely go no where.
05-13-2015 | 04:58 PM
#4364
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Joined: Dec 2012
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From: and Hold
The Useful PSA Thread
Envoy isn't furloughing. The staffing is pretty close to where it needs to be. If anything, it is a bit understaffed for the current place in the drawdown schedule.
The only way envoy pilots would ever consider transferring is with DOH. PSA will likely never accept that, and I can't blame them.
That being said, neither side needs this transfer of pilots, and it will likely go no where.
The only way envoy pilots would ever consider transferring is with DOH. PSA will likely never accept that, and I can't blame them.
That being said, neither side needs this transfer of pilots, and it will likely go no where.
I agree with everything said above. No one is happy right now, assuming there was some kind of effort at a forced integration.
05-13-2015 | 06:05 PM
#4365
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Joined: Dec 2005
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PSA pilots stabbing Envoy and the rest of the industry in the back is a huge part of why we are in this bad situation at Envoy to begin with. You think we should be grateful to these scumbag bottom-feeders that are taking 47 of our current aircraft and completely undermined our negotiations while the industry was trending upwards for once.. Seriously?
Unfortunately it's something the short sighted pilots at PSA don't and will never understand. It's why they have a crappy name in this industry. Personally, not what I would want if I was a brand new entry into the 121 world.
05-13-2015 | 07:08 PM
#4366
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Joined: Dec 2014
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From: CL65
This was not an attempt at integration. It was part of a plan to stop the regional whip-saw.
If you had any knowledge of how the system really works, ALPA National see's this as a way to stop the whip-saw and are excited about it! If they can push the issue on this, then when airplanes are moved from one company to another, they can force the airlines to accept the pilots to go as well. With pilots keeping their seniority for pay, there is no reason to move the airplanes. The end result is no whipsaw. PSA will be just fine if the 700's do not come over from Envoy. It is something that we didn't want from the start. Envoy's 700's were never part of anything that the pilots at PSA wanted. And, rest assured, we sure as heck don't want your pilots forced to come over here. That would be miserable for everyone.
You can talk all the crap that you want, but it looks like someone from PSA's MEC along with ALPA national did something that may benefit the entire regional industry for years to come.
My guess is that you are so upset because you didn't think of it. Read the other forums and talk to people that have real insight into how this industry works (not a line pilot) - this letter is being saluted as a potentially a HUGE step forward. Get your head out of the sand and see this for what it is!
If you had any knowledge of how the system really works, ALPA National see's this as a way to stop the whip-saw and are excited about it! If they can push the issue on this, then when airplanes are moved from one company to another, they can force the airlines to accept the pilots to go as well. With pilots keeping their seniority for pay, there is no reason to move the airplanes. The end result is no whipsaw. PSA will be just fine if the 700's do not come over from Envoy. It is something that we didn't want from the start. Envoy's 700's were never part of anything that the pilots at PSA wanted. And, rest assured, we sure as heck don't want your pilots forced to come over here. That would be miserable for everyone.
You can talk all the crap that you want, but it looks like someone from PSA's MEC along with ALPA national did something that may benefit the entire regional industry for years to come.
My guess is that you are so upset because you didn't think of it. Read the other forums and talk to people that have real insight into how this industry works (not a line pilot) - this letter is being saluted as a potentially a HUGE step forward. Get your head out of the sand and see this for what it is!
05-13-2015 | 07:28 PM
#4368
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,054
Likes: 0
This was not an attempt at integration. It was part of a plan to stop the regional whip-saw.
If you had any knowledge of how the system really works, ALPA National see's this as a way to stop the whip-saw and are excited about it! If they can push the issue on this, then when airplanes are moved from one company to another, they can force the airlines to accept the pilots to go as well. With pilots keeping their seniority for pay, there is no reason to move the airplanes. The end result is no whipsaw. PSA will be just fine if the 700's do not come over from Envoy. It is something that we didn't want from the start. Envoy's 700's were never part of anything that the pilots at PSA wanted. And, rest assured, we sure as heck don't want your pilots forced to come over here. That would be miserable for everyone.
You can talk all the crap that you want, but it looks like someone from PSA's MEC along with ALPA national did something that may benefit the entire regional industry for years to come.
My guess is that you are so upset because you didn't think of it. Read the other forums and talk to people that have real insight into how this industry works (not a line pilot) - this letter is being saluted as a potentially a HUGE step forward. Get your head out of the sand and see this for what it is!
If you had any knowledge of how the system really works, ALPA National see's this as a way to stop the whip-saw and are excited about it! If they can push the issue on this, then when airplanes are moved from one company to another, they can force the airlines to accept the pilots to go as well. With pilots keeping their seniority for pay, there is no reason to move the airplanes. The end result is no whipsaw. PSA will be just fine if the 700's do not come over from Envoy. It is something that we didn't want from the start. Envoy's 700's were never part of anything that the pilots at PSA wanted. And, rest assured, we sure as heck don't want your pilots forced to come over here. That would be miserable for everyone.
You can talk all the crap that you want, but it looks like someone from PSA's MEC along with ALPA national did something that may benefit the entire regional industry for years to come.
My guess is that you are so upset because you didn't think of it. Read the other forums and talk to people that have real insight into how this industry works (not a line pilot) - this letter is being saluted as a potentially a HUGE step forward. Get your head out of the sand and see this for what it is!
Now on to your outlandish above statements. Did you really just say PSA was doing this to try and stop the whipsaw? Oh no. Hold on. I need to laugh for a while. I'll come back to this.
Oh and by the way, ALPA National did NOT think this was a good idea. They laughed just as hard. It is a very very stupid idea.
05-13-2015 | 07:33 PM
#4369
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 349
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From: and Hold
The Useful PSA Thread
I don't know if anything CLT GUY said is true or not, but as far as establishing a liability and deterrent for companies to move planes around - pay is all they care about, the companies don't care about DOH or who is above who in the list, no? Now, as far as us having that DOH safety net, of-course that would be preferable on a personal level. Thoughts?
05-13-2015 | 07:36 PM
#4370
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 955
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From: CL65
Hey where you been hoss? I haven't seen you since you said that the average PSA new hire had 5000 hours. Did you see my response? Math defeated you and I asked you to gnad up and admit you had made an outlandish statement. Poof. Haven't seen you in days.
Now on to your outlandish above statements. Did you really just say PSA was doing this to try and stop the whipsaw? Oh no. Hold on. I need to laugh for a while. I'll come back to this.
Oh and by the way, ALPA National did NOT think this was a good idea. They laughed just as hard. It is a very very stupid idea.
Now on to your outlandish above statements. Did you really just say PSA was doing this to try and stop the whipsaw? Oh no. Hold on. I need to laugh for a while. I'll come back to this.
Oh and by the way, ALPA National did NOT think this was a good idea. They laughed just as hard. It is a very very stupid idea.
I was on vacation, and the last thing that I do on vacation is read messages from you.
The average class at PSA for the last several months has been 50-55% 121 guys from other airlines. The majority of those have been Endeavor, with 7-9 years of experience. Also thrown in are some long-time Comair guys. Their average of these guys is certainly in the 8000+ range. Combing them with the military guys (3000-5000 hours, and the corporate pilots (300-5000 hours, some over 10,000hours), the average is around 5000 hours. Several classes were polled, and this is about the norm. Some were 4500 hours, others were 6200 hours average. There are typically only 2-4 "flight instructor" type guys with 1500 hours per class, the rest are coming from other flying jobs (135, 91, 121, military).
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