But, but you said it is the last thing "ANYONE at PSA wants." You do realize every response you and others have given has been on the defense and full of rationalization right? Absolutely pathetic.

When I got hired at American Eagle, I was proud to be there. You all at PSA should be ashamed for where you work and what you've done to the industry. Goodnight

 

Enjoy playing checkers when everyone around you is playing chess.

 

Simple answer.. Because of outfits like PSA and Gojet. and the lowlife shortsighted pilots willing to go there.

These Pilots in this day and age with the internet know full well exactly why they are getting those airplanes/quick upgrades and how they are getting them directly at other groups expense and suffering. They try to play dumb and blame management saying they have no control over aircraft transfers. But we all know the truth. It's the Pilots willing to stab everyone else in the back to get ahead at any cost, trying to leapfrog others while undermining negotiations at other carriers which fuels this crap. If everyone said no and refused to go to these places the regional whipsaw and managements wet dreams wouldn't continue to happen.

Don't go work at places like PSA. Quit trying desperately to poach the pilots your group harmed to feed these quick upgrade pyramid schemes, while accelerating the destruction of other pilots career's for your benefit.

Yeah.. so are the PSA pilots willing to take Eagle pilots at our DOH for seniority, bidding and pay? LOL.. Of course that will never happen with these types of people. We would push down probably 90% of your seniority list because almost 1200 of us here have 8-25+ yrs of service already invested at Eagle and it goes directly against what management is trying to achieve by recycling everyone to the bottom over and over again. Which they are succeding at quite well due to stupid pilots.

I remember back in 2007 Gojet tried to poach me from Eagle at a job fair. I would have upgraded many years sooner but I told the recruiter to go to hell. I knew what they were and why they existed at another groups expense. If everyone was wiling to do the same that dirtbag outfit would be long dead by now. The same thing is happening all over again at the PSA recycle center now. Different story but same end results. All our long term mainline careers will suffer due to keeping the downward pressure and recycled dirt cheap pilot factory going.

 

Is this true?

American Eagle's contract originally had a section which specified that American Eagle could not transfer aircraft to another airline without transferring the pilots with the airplanes to the other airline.
In 2011, Eagle pilots voted to remove the section governing the transfer of pilot with the aircraft in return for a stronger scope clause.

As soon as that vote concluded and the section removed - every single one of Eagle's aircraft - every Embraer, every Canadair, was transferred from American Eagle Airlines to American Airlines. The only aircraft that American Eagle and now today Envoy own today are the Saabs sitting in storage.


Is this really true?

If so, that is the basis of all of this whipsaw. That was the key to setting all of this up. You sold your own airplanes for scope clause and are trying to blame PSA.

 

Yes.
Everything's true except, I can't remember with all the shananagins(sp?) that were occurring at the time, if we were able to actually vote on it. It may have been one of those items the previous MEC just signed off on.

And yes, the way it was worded every American Eagle pilot at the time would have instantly been transferred onto the AA seniority list.

 

This wasn't us selling out our airplanes for scope, this is when we were being divested pre bankruptcy and going to have our assets (aircraft) transferred away from Eagle to other carriers.

Hardly the fault of the actual Eagle pilot group what ended up happening due to our MEC and AMR. The mess you are talking about is the result of a settlement grievance. At the time the current shady collaborative with management MEC was pulling all sorts of shenanigans, feeding us half-truths, keeping us completely in the dark, and flat out lying to us about a lot of it. It was all a big sham. We use to have the option to go with the planes if they were transferred, with the ability to come back to Eagle within 5 years. Not that any of us would want to get transferred to the rumored at the time "Mesa" to follow our planes.

"On July 19, 2011, the MEC Grievance Committee settled case number "MEC-0411. This grievance was filed when American Eagle announced a plan to aid American in creating a multi-step series of transactions that would ultimately result in the use of American Eagle assets by other regional airlines to provide feed to American. As part of the settlement, a tentative Letter of Agreement was reached between Eagle and ALPA to clarify and enhance portions of Section 1 of the Collective Bargaining Agreement (Scope), in the event American Eagle was ultimately divested from AMR. As a divested company, clarifying what constitutes a transfer of operations and what would occur if it happens, as well as the language which prevents American Eagle Airlines from creating an alter-ego carrier to circumnavigate our Collective Bargaining Agreement, is immensely important to Eagle pilots.

This tentative Letter of Agreement contains vital improvements to the American Eagle and ALPA Collective Bargaining Agreement (in the event of the divestiture of American Eagle from AMR). Specifically, this LOA clarifies what will constitute a transfer of operations, what will occur in such an event, and it prohibits American Eagle from creating an alter-ego carrier to circumnavigate the ALPA- Eagle Collective Bargaining Agreement."

 

Which would have never happened, ever, because they wouldn't have ever transferred the aircraft to AA in that case.

What would have likely happened is if we would have been divested before the bankruptcy happened, we could have had a group of CRJ pilots transferred over to Mesa or some other dump. Who here wanted that? The idea was to prevent all of that and prevent another alter-ego Gojet type of nightmare scenario. At least that is what the pilot group was told at the time. This wasn't the result of the Eagle pilots "bending over".

 

Nor is this letter by the MEC chair the fault of the PSA pilot group, and it's intent is still ambiguous.

 

The transfer of the 700s is not the fault of the PSA's vote. The TA which was passed by 11% wasn't even to secure the shiny new 900s but rather for our survival because we all knew if we were to shut down, not a single regional would lend a hand. This is easily proven by the demise of comair, and we have plenty of ex comair guys that can shed some light on this topic.

PDT passed their TA by a much wider margin. So did Eagle on their last vote. PDT knew they were in worst position than PSA so they caved right away. PSA already said no twice and this probably was our last chance and yet 39% of us said enough is enough and voted no putting our career at risk. Eagle thought they were too big to shut down and voted no twice but after closure of MIA, announcement of the 700s being transferred, while giving away a few dozen E jets slotted for Envoy and Envoy caved to the threat real quick. And those threats had nothing to do with PSA. Those 700s could've easily went to Mesa or Skywest or even PDT had PSA voted it down again. I have to say the majority (51%) was leaning towards no until AAG said if we turn it down, they're going to Mesa. Now I don't think a single person can honestly say AAG was bluffing. So inadvertently, we've triple the size of the regional with best QOL and still potentially best pay in the industry.

So if you feel like you need a scapegoat to help you sleep at night, then by all means. I have only mentioned facts above. Like it or not, PSA did benefit the most out of all three wholly owned airlines, when all three airlines voted in concessions. But it had nothing to do with us caving first. I am however envious of the $12.5k shush money Envoy pilots have gotten.

 

LOL. You peeps are living in the past. Move on, you won't be able to change a damn thing. You're stressing and getting grey hairs - go out, fly the damn plane and be happy you don't have to worry about TPS reports at some industrial park hating your life.