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Old 03-03-2016 | 05:17 AM
  #1121  
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Originally Posted by chrisreedrules
I think you ignored most of what I posted... We didn't say no thank you, we will stay for free. We said, keep your bonus, it isn't what we need. If you don't give us what we need, this airline will become a flaming dumpster fire.
Yes we did, you are not looking to leave. You are looking to upgrade here. You we're denied a bouns and 3k a year for doing something you will do anyway.
This company is very easy to bid 4 commutable 4 day trips a month crediting 78-80 hours and having adequate time at home.
There are however FO's closer to the bottom of the list that may start entertaining offers because they see classes of 2-3 coming in behind them. You don't know what they'll do because you are not one of them.

The captains you're supporting simply do not care. There are DEC's to soak up the bottom of the their list. Nothing can or will happen to spoil the plans or their flow. Every month they log TPIC and you do not they move closer to mainline and you do not.
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Old 03-03-2016 | 05:18 AM
  #1122  
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Originally Posted by 4myfamily
This is one FO that will be looking to leave in the next month to go somewhere that treats pilots with respect, honors the contract and has industry leading pay. I know I am only one, but I hope that my departure gives the company a small glimpse of what is coming for them. Good to luck all the FOs that decide to stay. I would say if you are a commuter you should look to get out of this place and fast!
Good luck at your next airline but the grass isn't always greener. The bonus will be nice but you better hope you don't fail your interview at another major or LCC and you can pretty much cross AA off your list unless you are also a fighter pilot or have a relative in management. The more FOs that leave the sooner we get bonuses for everyone just like Endeavor.
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Old 03-03-2016 | 05:21 AM
  #1123  
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Originally Posted by YNWA1892
I wasn't intending to ignore most of your post but what I get from your post is that you believe we said no because we think it is not enough and a temporary fix to a bigger issue? Once again I agree this place is a ****** pile in a lot of respects but are you leaving? Are the CAs happy about the union standing up to DF leaving? Not even the fairly new FOs are leaving. So yes it's a bandaid to fix our new hire problem but until we have a CA and FO retention problem they won't offer us more. So in my mind the bandaid was the new hire bonus that they went and did any ways where as the free money to current FOs was thrown out. The bandaid is the new hire bonus not the retention bonus because retention isn't an issue yet. If saying no had meant no new hire bonus we would have had leverage but that isn't the case.
RAH already tried the path Of saying no to everything until a great new shiny contract shows up. The system of negotiations doesn't move fast enough and it'll always be too little too late. Prove me wrong or tell me what's different.
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Old 03-03-2016 | 05:23 AM
  #1124  
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Originally Posted by YNWA1892
I wasn't intending to ignore most of your post but what I get from your post is that you believe we said no because we think it is not enough and a temporary fix to a bigger issue? Once again I agree this place is a ****** pile in a lot of respects but are you leaving? Are the CAs happy about the union standing up to DF leaving? Not even the fairly new FOs are leaving. So yes it's a bandaid to fix our new hire problem but until we have a CA and FO retention problem they won't offer us more. So in my mind the bandaid was the new hire bonus that they went and did any ways where as the free money to current FOs was thrown out. The bandaid is the new hire bonus not the retention bonus because retention isn't an issue yet. If saying no had meant no new hire bonus we would have had leverage but that isn't the case.
Retention is going to become a huge issue this year. There are FOs who have been here over a year that I hear talking about leaving every time I see them. I can't tell you how many FOs I've talked to that haven't been here 6 months that have concrete plans for leaving. I am holding a round 1 line in my base of choice. I don't have as much reason to leave (yet). If I were on reserve I would start updating my apps and exploring options personally. Barring some big change, I don't think the growth is going to come back to PSA. When they finish delivering the rest of the 900s, I don't think we will see any more growth. And I don't think there will be any large upgrade classes from here on out. You can't upgrade when you can't hire. And we don't flow more if we don't upgrade. Management is personally responsible for bungling our growth. They stopped hiring FOs for months. That sent an awful sign to potential new hires. If you weren't hired here a year + ago, you missed whatever benefits there were to coming here. I could be wrong. I've been wrong before. But I do believe that AAG wants its wholly owned regionals to succeed. But only if they are cheap. If we aren't cheap, then there is no reason our flying can't be given to someone else (like Mesa). Flow or not, American will never have trouble filling classes at mainline. They don't need us as much as many like to say they do.
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Old 03-03-2016 | 05:25 AM
  #1125  
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Originally Posted by Tikiman
I am leaving. Less than a year Fo. Poor management and dishonest scheduling.

No growth.




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You can then say you stood up for some thing. You are one of the few that can complain about this place and say they did some thing about it. I hope where ever you decide to go is a better fit for you and you have a great career. Good luck.
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Old 03-03-2016 | 05:30 AM
  #1126  
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Originally Posted by rickshaw
A CA paycheck is a viable living, an FO check is not. Your representation grossly ignored this fact. Overnight, you motivated damn near every FO to reevaluate coming to PSA. You've guaranteed stagnation and an impending year of staffing abuses that go unchecked by a contract written in toilet paper. Your knocked the cupcakes off the table so nobody could have one. FO's got robbed by ALPA. Please.., tell us about those great new pay rates you're working on, uh. After the big critical pay settlement right around the corner. I know, I know, pilots don't really understand the process blah blah.
You came to this airline knowing the pay and you accepted it. And we're probably happy about it.
Nothing changed. The company came to ALPA and offered an incentive to only 1 part of the pilot group. We are a Union and any bonuses should be divided up evenly.
$20k probably isn't going to do much to keep someone from leaving to Jet Blue or wherever.
It's time management makes positive changes for everyone on property. Accepting a bribe is very short sighted.
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Old 03-03-2016 | 05:35 AM
  #1127  
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Originally Posted by seafeye
You came to this airline knowing the pay and you accepted it. And we're probably happy about it.
Nothing changed. The company came to ALPA and offered an incentive to only 1 part of the pilot group. We are a Union and any bonuses should be divided up evenly.
$20k probably isn't going to do much to keep someone from leaving to Jet Blue or wherever.
It's time management makes positive changes for everyone on property. Accepting a bribe is very short sighted.
I agree with you.

That being said, I know people are upset. But this division is exactly what they want. A divided foe is easily conquered. This may be laying the ground work for contract negotiations this summer.
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Old 03-03-2016 | 05:40 AM
  #1128  
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Originally Posted by chrisreedrules
Retention is going to become a huge issue this year. There are FOs who have been here over a year that I hear talking about leaving every time I see them. I can't tell you how many FOs I've talked to that haven't been here 6 months that have concrete plans for leaving. I am holding a round 1 line in my base of choice. I don't have as much reason to leave (yet). If I were on reserve I would start updating my apps and exploring options personally. Barring some big change, I don't think the growth is going to come back to PSA. When they finish delivering the rest of the 900s, I don't think we will see any more growth. And I don't think there will be any large upgrade classes from here on out. You can't upgrade when you can't hire. And we don't flow more if we don't upgrade. Management is personally responsible for bungling our growth. They stopped hiring FOs for months. That sent an awful sign to potential new hires. If you weren't hired here a year + ago, you missed whatever benefits there were to coming here. I could be wrong. I've been wrong before. But I do believe that AAG wants its wholly owned regionals to succeed. But only if they are cheap. If we aren't cheap, then there is no reason our flying can't be given to someone else (like Mesa). Flow or not, American will never have trouble filling classes at mainline. They don't need us as much as many like to say they do.
you are right on all fronts.

The only reason FOs under 1.5 years will stay is for bases.

This place only works for AA if it is cheap and they will accept whatever size PSA is to maintain a cheap product.

There will be no improvement.

Management and Culture do not change quickly.
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Old 03-03-2016 | 05:41 AM
  #1129  
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Originally Posted by chrisreedrules
I agree with you.

That being said, I know people are upset. But this division is exactly what they want. A divided foe is easily conquered. This may be laying the ground work for contract negotiations this summer.
There will be no contract negotiations this summer, our contract is good through 2023. This summer is simply about the flow, nothing more.
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Old 03-03-2016 | 05:42 AM
  #1130  
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Originally Posted by chrisreedrules
Retention is going to become a huge issue this year. There are FOs who have been here over a year that I hear talking about leaving every time I see them. I can't tell you how many FOs I've talked to that haven't been here 6 months that have concrete plans for leaving. I am holding a round 1 line in my base of choice. I don't have as much reason to leave (yet). If I were on reserve I would start updating my apps and exploring options personally. Barring some big change, I don't think the growth is going to come back to PSA. When they finish delivering the rest of the 900s, I don't think we will see any more growth. And I don't think there will be any large upgrade classes from here on out. You can't upgrade when you can't hire. And we don't flow more if we don't upgrade. Management is personally responsible for bungling our growth. They stopped hiring FOs for months. That sent an awful sign to potential new hires. If you weren't hired here a year + ago, you missed whatever benefits there were to coming here. I could be wrong. I've been wrong before. But I do believe that AAG wants its wholly owned regionals to succeed. But only if they are cheap. If we aren't cheap, then there is no reason our flying can't be given to someone else (like Mesa). Flow or not, American will never have trouble filling classes at mainline. They don't need us as much as many like to say they do.
I hope you're right but I think every one is more talk than action. The company has been this way for awhile and we haven't seen a mass exodus. It's a much bigger task jumping airlines than most people think. When they are angry every one wants to leave but when they look at what it will involve, possibly moving, going to the bottom of a seniority list again, hoping this new airline is better, most people will really have to think twice before they leave. Until our numbers show it I will only take people's cries of I'm leaving at face value. Look how long people stayed at Comair, Republic and how many people have stuck it out at Envoy. This industry is not favorable for airline hoping unfortunately.
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