Originally Posted by pagey

Do you work at PSA? Were you at PSA during the 2013 vote?



The vote was never about "we really wanna fly those jets" it was about surviving to fight another day. That day has now come. This airline will not be staffed unless major improvements are made.



You don't win every battle of a war. With our "concessions" we locked in critical pay which, while being honored by the company, made us the 2nd highest paying regional. It also locked in the most powerful tool in the industry for QoL, for 10 years.



Those ***** made a strategic decision that is now paying off.

Originally Posted by Slick111

In other words, my union reps don't care what I think. They're just going to tell me what I'm getting. Why tell the pilot group what topics are being discussed/negotiated and encourage their input PRIOR to the negotiations.

Hell, they just had a call-in conference. Was any of this discussed and feedback solicited from the pilot group, as a whole? Maybe we should expect to learn more about our future pay from facebook.




Let's be clear here. The Envoy "hiring and retention bonus" program will NOT benefit any pilots currently employed at Envoy. Nor will it benefit any pilots currently employed at PSA, if adopted. This program is solely and entirely aimed at pilots who are currently employed at OTHER 121 CARRIERS!!!!! NOT CURRENT PSA OR ENVOY FIRST OFFICERS (or Captains)!!!

Here's the language, directly from Envoy's ad: (with my emphasis added)
"Envoy will now offer up to $10,000 for **NEW HIRE** pilots who have Part 121 commercial air carrier experience. In return for a two-year commitment to Envoy,...."

Originally Posted by 1stCivDivPilot

The way they've handled the flow is enough proof that taking this pathetic offer is a bad idea.

The flow was supposed to solve everything. It didn't and that knew that almost immediately. Have they come back yet? Nope. They are still waiting until June. Maybe out of stubbornness, pride, delusion? I don't know. They will feed us this scrap and keep marching like its the solution despite all the evidence to the contrary. Meanwhile, we've sold ourselves short and given them a new reprieve.

Originally Posted by IceManCRJ

I agree with this completely. Now hopefully we will force the company to pony up a better offer than the retention bonus they seem to be talking about.


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Originally Posted by Waitingformins

I know beyond all doubt if it went only to the captains and not to the FO's this wouldn't be a conversation it would have already been passed.

Originally Posted by chrisreedrules

Honestly, I don't think you "get it". The company and the NC negotiate on things. Once the NC feels that they have something worth sending to the pilots for a vote, then and only then do they do so. There is a reason that the MEC outright rejected the original proposal of a 10K signing bonus for new hires and 10K retention bonuses for FOs only. Because NO BONUSES SHOULD BE CONSIDERED unless they include ALL of the pilots. This is what you elect your fellow pilots to represent you for.

Originally Posted by Waitingformins

I think your confusing the wet dream you keep having with reality.

Your confusing your greed, as nobel selflessness. At least the captains that voted this down clearly understand its their basic jealously that they weren't included.

Originally Posted by Waitingformins

The flow was never suppose to solve everything? Who told you that. It was part of the 900 deal and the agreement to revisit it was part of that deal. That was the there to get the existing captains to pass 12/4. The upgrades is what tilted the FO's to pass it.

Originally Posted by Waitingformins

Well the company has already given new hires a bonus without the union's approval, so they can raise it to 10k without their approval. This is ABOUT GIVING FO'S ON PROPERTY A RAISE ABOVE POVERTY.