seafeye

I'm not defending PSA's TA but there was language that basically said no airplanes, no TA. Of course they could have just ordered 1 airplane but so far 3 or 4 have arrived.
No idea if they are having issues staffing yet. The number 900 guy at PSA will have a long wait till he/she gets the chance at AA.
I suspect that they will just either hope for a seniority number at mainline or will jump ship to United or Delta.
In the eyes of management you offer your senior pilots something at the expense of the younger junior pilots. If that doesn't bite then you have to raise the anti some more.
Eventually you will get to a 51% pass.
We should all be pushing for a seniority number at mainline.

Anyway this will all be short lived. The 12/4 is a horrible hiring tool. Today we have upgrades in 2-3 years, but what happens in 5 years when it gets to 8-10?
Who is going to go to the airline with a f/o pay scale that stops at year 4?
Once that happens then we will see hiring bonuses till they don't work then a new TA. 2018 is my guess.

plnegoofy

I think its funny how everybody is telling PDT to hold the line now...they are less than 500 pilots...a drop in the bucket in terms of the regional pilot pool. This after Mesa, PSA, GO Jets, all of the Republic companies(until recently), etc have undercut and sold out their own contracts to get more flying. Especially when all these companies had somewhat modern fleets when they sold out their contract language. Now PDT has a 25 year old fleet, and is cost neutral...the worst thing to be because for all you uneducated, that means they can be shut down and it wont cost Usairways a dang thing. Also, for all of you who don't know how PSA got their first round of 50 seat RJ's, then you have no place to tell PDT to hold the line...cause PDT did...and they have held the line for many years...but everybody else kept selling them down the river. I think PDT should do what they think is best for them, and everybody else should live with what they decide, this time around. For reference, I was a PDT pilot for 8 years and was lucky enough to go to mainline, so I know what I am talking about, and pull for these guys at mainline when I can.

CBreezy

Frame of reference is everything. It's not your fault you are unable to comprehend the situation. I also choose to ignore circumstance when making inflammatory and emotional remarks.

skyxbomb

Both PSA and PDT's TA is an insult! However AA kept their end by adding aircraft to PSA and have guarantee of 30 aircraft. PDT is offered no growth but rather a wind down of operation where AA will keep only 20 aircraft in operation at a loss of course to ensure the lifers a retirement. Correct me if I'm interpreting this wrong. In case AA wants to grow PDT, you will be capped with no grandfathering for the senior pilots over 12 years of longevity. But given the situation PDT is in, AA offered just enough to get the vote passed. PSA and PDT are easy to shut down. Hence why PSA reluctantly passed the TA which nobody else understands. Envoy is a whole different animal due to their sheer size. And yet they're getting punished as well but time will tell. Majors would rather fly 190s and 717s on their own than to ever see a regional captain make 120-130 and FOs making 50-60k. Look at Delta, that's exactly what they're doing. And in a way it's better for the whole industry.

BSOuthisplace

I agree, the aircraft commitment language is not as solid as PSAs, but like I said if they don't deliver aircraft nothing changes other than we keep the flow.

There is aircraft commitment language in this TA. My understanding reading the LOA is the only way AAG can back out of delivering 175s is if either AFA or IAM refuse to negotiate new contracts.

There is grandfathering language for Dash-8s up to the 25 year step

dash8

the ignorance and misinformation in this thread is astounding...

there are grandfather clauses
there is a section detailing that the last 20 of the standing order of 175s are slated for pdt, as are the first 20 options (if AA exercises the order options)

it would take aag 120 days to close us down and transfer the majority of our flying to existing contract carriers (with the exception of a tiny handful of routes that would disappear) and they would most certainly do it as it would let them really put the screws to eagle(sorry, they're never going to be 'envoy' to me)

inline five

If I read the flow through language correctly, AA only has to make 3 offers (up to 350 pilots) a month. An offer is just that, an offer, if the pilot turns it down, it still counts as an offer. Thus with the proclaimed 100+ lifers on property, PDT would see zero go to the flow for almost 3 years.

That being said, quick calculations show the most senior F/O on property wouldn't see indoc at AAG for almost 5 years! Pilot #350 would take 9.5 years to flow. That is insane. The "flow" isn't really worth much IMO.

diva

Stand strong and hold the line. By signing this you'll give them leverage and be sorry later. Don't. You don't want to make the same mistake as Pinnacle or PSA. You won't be shut down, they need every single one of you.

dash8

if they're lifers then they wont have their opt in set and they wouldn't get called anyways

the rest of your math is woefully incorrect...

inline five

I believe by reading the TA you must "opt out", isn't that correct? (EDIT: See below) I don't know many people who would completely shut the door. Why not keep all options open? You get no benefit by saying "no thanks" before they even get to you.

How is it incorrect? Take 3 (offers) per month and divide it by your seniority number. There is an increase of one additional per pilot every 125 pilots on property, but that assumes the same relative pilot group size.

EDIT: Here is the language:

Key word is "may". It's not required to do.