ATP Law Petition
03-02-2012, 07:48 AM
#51
Bracing for Fallacies
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: In favor of good things, not in favor of bad things
Posts: 3,543
Originally Posted by EVpilot
So put the hour minimums wherever they want, still wouldn't have prevented 3407, they both exceeded 1500 hours.
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But what did they do to get to 1500 + hours? Flying an RJ for 1500 hours does not really make you an experienced pilot. Going from 300 to 1500 hours as an FO does not prepare you to be a captain. Getting out there and teaching maneuvers and doing stall and spin practice does help. One should not have his or her first experience with making stupid mistakes and surviving it in a 121 aircraft. These lessons are best learned by ones self. That, in my opinion, is the value of flight instruction and single pilot commercial flying. I did some really dumb stuff in airplanes before I got here. I learned to make decisions by making bad ones first. That is the point of the 1500 hour rule.
----
But what did they do to get to 1500 + hours? Flying an RJ for 1500 hours does not really make you an experienced pilot. Going from 300 to 1500 hours as an FO does not prepare you to be a captain. Getting out there and teaching maneuvers and doing stall and spin practice does help. One should not have his or her first experience with making stupid mistakes and surviving it in a 121 aircraft. These lessons are best learned by ones self. That, in my opinion, is the value of flight instruction and single pilot commercial flying. I did some really dumb stuff in airplanes before I got here. I learned to make decisions by making bad ones first. That is the point of the 1500 hour rule.
03-02-2012, 08:04 AM
#52
ILL BEE DAT
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: Rollin' Down tha 405
Posts: 2,555
Originally Posted by EVpilot
These lessons are best learned by ones self. That, in my opinion, is the value of flight instruction and single pilot commercial flying. I did some really dumb stuff in airplanes before I got here. I learned to make decisions by making bad ones first. That is the point of the 1500 hour rule.
Man I've got some "I'm a dumbass" stories.....from AFTER I was furloughed the first time....
You see that? That's a sand storm just East of Palm Springs in 2009....guess how I learned that you don't fly into those....
Here's another kicker....I made more money outside of 121 aviation...almost 3 times as much odd enough so the money is there if you look for it.
03-02-2012, 09:27 AM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: 767 CA
Posts: 411
Speaking for someone who has spent a great deal of money getting to where I am, to be held back by a new law put into place, I would like to do what I can to create a possibility.
While this law isn't a be-all end-all that some make it out to be. It's one of the first things out of the FAA in a whole that I agree with.
03-02-2012, 09:42 AM
#54
Reserve for Life
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: Right Seat for life
Posts: 221
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
So put the hour minimums wherever they want, still wouldn't have prevented 3407, they both exceeded 1500 hours. As far as I can tell, 100% of the Part 121 crashes have been with pilots with 1500+ hours and an ATP acting as the PIC. Given the ATP can be done rather quickly in a PA44 for not much money, the requirement for an ATP is a big eh to me.
03-02-2012, 09:49 AM
#55
patience
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,068
Going to an aviation college and completing all necessary ratings(com-mel, CFII/MEI) might provide you with the right amount of knowledge required for the right seat of a shiny regional jet, but knowledge does not replace wisdom. Wisdom is obtained over time through experience not in the classroom of Embry Riddle.
To the OP,
You disagree with this rule now because of your lack of wisdom and aviation experience. Mark my words, you will understand and change your tune once you obtain more hours and time passes by. The shiny regional jets will still be around in a couple years, what is the rush for? CFIs make more than first years FOs.
To the OP,
You disagree with this rule now because of your lack of wisdom and aviation experience. Mark my words, you will understand and change your tune once you obtain more hours and time passes by. The shiny regional jets will still be around in a couple years, what is the rush for? CFIs make more than first years FOs.
03-02-2012, 09:54 AM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 283
Originally Posted by flyboyandrew
I have been in contact recently with several congressmen, who I have discussed with the new "ATP Law" going into affect. I was advised to create a petition to hand into the FAA requesting amendments to the proposed NPRM for the law.
AP
AP
03-02-2012, 10:26 AM
#57
patience
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,068
Originally Posted by FDX8891
03-02-2012, 10:33 AM
#58
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 26
[QUOTE=Systemized;1144577]Going to an aviation college and completing all necessary ratings(com-mel, CFII/MEI) might provide you with the right amount of knowledge required for the right seat of a shiny regional jet, but knowledge does not replace wisdom. Wisdom is obtained over time through experience not in the classroom of Embry Riddle.
Well said.....no amount of classroom talk can beat actual experience.
Well said.....no amount of classroom talk can beat actual experience.
03-02-2012, 10:59 AM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Posts: 442
I don't know if anyone already asked this but what are the airlines going to do with their current FO's that don't have their ATP come August 1, 2013? I haven't heard anything about my company sending us to training to get our ATP.
Andrew, I have a friend going to Copa Airlines in Panama soon. You could work there with 250 hours. You would have a nice looking resume when you have enough time for a part 121 in the USA.
Andrew, I have a friend going to Copa Airlines in Panama soon. You could work there with 250 hours. You would have a nice looking resume when you have enough time for a part 121 in the USA.
03-02-2012, 11:53 AM
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2010
Posts: 218
Originally Posted by seafeye
The Internet was around long before you got into this profession. You have noone to blame but yourself for getting into this business. 1500hr rule is the minimum we should aspire to.
Don't want to pay your dues as a CFI? Then do something else.
Don't want to pay your dues as a CFI? Then do something else.
I realize people think this rule will be a good thing for regional life/pay, and maybe it will be, but remember there are always unintended consequences with any legislation. If it really does cause a shortage, rather than raise pay, they'll hire anybody who comes along with 1500 hrs and an ATP- even if that person won't be pleasant to work with, is unsafe, etc - they need pilots. And if they can't get new FOs, no growth or captain upgrades. This is happening either way - just playing devil's advocate.
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