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Regarding PVD, I didn't know the guy and have no idea if he was in the training department. He tried to save an airplane that was very unstable rather than follow procedures and crashed. We do go arounds in the sim every year for a variety of reasons, some of which are being unstable. Regardless how you feel they feel, it's your butt when you're flying the airplane. If you need to go around, go around. Are you going to crash and then blame the training department for not doing enough go around emphasis during your training? I've done 2 that I can think of that were due to the airplane getting unstable. Ridiculous winds for one and the other was due to some kind of wake from the guy in front of us. I didn't let go and say F this, I flew the plane and got out of there. And if my FO let go during either event, you can be sure I'd be calling up the training department to let them know the guy is unsafe.
The PVD capt was a training capt so by definition he was in the training dept. He took control from the FO but didn't GA. So why exactly was that?Originally Posted by pitchtrim
Cause everyone knows the simulator is just like flying the real airplane right? Lands exactly the same I'm sure. Combine that with the added pressure of having people in the back, talking on the radios, having different crew members to work with, long days, bad weather, short overnights, and yes, some people can't do this job. Regarding PVD, I didn't know the guy and have no idea if he was in the training department. He tried to save an airplane that was very unstable rather than follow procedures and crashed. We do go arounds in the sim every year for a variety of reasons, some of which are being unstable. Regardless how you feel they feel, it's your butt when you're flying the airplane. If you need to go around, go around. Are you going to crash and then blame the training department for not doing enough go around emphasis during your training? I've done 2 that I can think of that were due to the airplane getting unstable. Ridiculous winds for one and the other was due to some kind of wake from the guy in front of us. I didn't let go and say F this, I flew the plane and got out of there. And if my FO let go during either event, you can be sure I'd be calling up the training department to let them know the guy is unsafe.
The sim is supposed to mimic the real thing. that's why you can do your landing currency in one of those. There are also other pressure associated with being in sim as well, just different pressure associated with line flying. You admited you dont know half the people in the tng dept. I can only speak from personal experience and what I have seen and been told which is more recent and more relevant to new hire. My partner was horrible at flying this jet too. He made it. How do you explain the different outcomes between our partners?
Like I said before, if they release someone who abandon control at 50ft, then its another crack in training dept. I never said I woudnt go around if I have to. If the app is stable, there must be a way for a TRAINER to make someone comfortable enough to come down from 50ft!
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My partner busted regulation and limitation of the airplane, had to re-do a couple manuvers. Still passed! that's another crack in the training dept right there!Originally Posted by pitchtrim
I don't know the difference between my sim partner and yours and I don't care. I'm drinking, but you keep being butt hurt over the training department.
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Heck no! I know better than to get myself into the training dept! Vocal to give potential new hire on what it is like. isn't it what this forum is for?Originally Posted by pitchtrim
Maybe you should apply to be an instructor and fix the cracks, or talk to PP about your concerns. You're vocal on here, which will accomplish nothing.
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In my years here I have never ever heard of someone saying not to go around because it costs money. Never. In fact, we constantly hear the opposite. If the approach is unstable or if for any reason we feel it's not right, that we should go around. This is constantly reiterated in the written documents and in the online training and in the sim. Originally Posted by lgaflyer
A trainer will probably not let a GA happen on a stablized approach because it wastes fuel (aka money)! Heck, they dont even let a GA happen even on an unstablized approach (reference PVD)!! They can try talking them down with one hand guarding the yoke. Same CFI techniques we all used before. Why can't they apply the same technique here?
I've never had a conservative decision questioned.
The stuff I'm reading here is totally inconsistent with my own personal experience, but of course I haven't been a newhire here in many years.
But the idea that we shouldn't go around because it would cost money is ridiculous.
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I dunno, are you really interested in fixing the problem you talk about or just complaining to people who don't work here? Complaints usually go up, not down to get anything accomplished. Every time I read anything you post it's about the training department. You either had a horrible experience, got let go, or feel inclined to fight for the injustice that is firing people who don't cut it.Originally Posted by lgaflyer
Heck no! I know better than to get myself into the training dept! Vocal to give potential new hire on what it is like. isn't it what this forum is for?
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If you have really read my post like you said you did, you would know that I already made it out and flying the line. I have always stated that I'm speaking from personal experience, and stuff that I have seen or people told me. Do you really think that there is no injustice in the training dept? And that everything is fair? Then I suggest that you look up the Mike Hoeper lawsuitOriginally Posted by pitchtrim
I dunno, are you really interested in fixing the problem you talk about or just complaining to people who don't work here? Complaints usually go up, not down to get anything accomplished. Every time I read anything you post it's about the training department. You either had a horrible experience, got let go, or feel inclined to fight for the injustice that is firing people who don't cut it.
Yeah I'm familiar, and have heard the occasional unjust bust stories. That's pretty much anywhere at any point in the long ladder of aviation checkrides.
