Yes. It is illegal in the US. There are laws against Indentured Servitude.

 

No it's not illegal. It's called a training contract.

 

Nothing over 24 months has ever been approved by the courts, and the majority of the states in the US believe that training contracts are illegal. Most airlines can not enforce them outside of sending a couple of threatening letters.

 

Cite the reference.

The contract is a binding document and is enforceable.

I understand you may have HEARD it's illegal or not enforceable, but I've lived the experience. Someone signs a contract they will either pay it or pay for a lawyer to get out of it.

 

It would likely be in the format of a consumer loan that the airline would sponsor and would be guaranteed paid as part of your compensation package over a specified period of time.

There's always a way. This would of course reinforce the obsolete seniority system and further serve to keep pilot salaries low and prevent job opportunities for established and experienced pilots.

I'm sure this is a consideration but probably not by majors. It would be the regionals that would create such a system. The majors have no need.

A lot of pilots think scope clauses and contracts will protect the high end jobs but historically that has not been the case. High end airline pilot jobs are being gradually replaced and will continue to be gradually replaced. If the regionals figure out an effective way to lock pilots into very long term contracts the pool of pilots for the majors will dry up and they will not be able to fill their ranks.

Many people will say if that happens the majors will just raise salaries but again historically this has never happened...why should they? With the seniority system in place there is no economic incentive for an airline to raise pay. Majors have been gradually reducing pilot pay over time (especially the majors) so there is no reason this trend would change.

The reaction the majors will take is the same as they have always done, further forcing the unions to accept larger sanctions such as scope to protect their existing ranks. Regional airlines will operate even larger planes...over 100 seats and beyond in order to reduce the labor demand by the majors.

If you think I'm wrong...come back in twenty years when I'm long retired and we'll see.

 

You are correct. CLT Guy is giving some very poor legal advice.

 

I think you are either on the outside looking in, or you are on or near the bottom and are salivating for a job stealing shortcut to the top. You pretend to be this pro labor crusader, but you want to do away with unions and seniority and turn the profession into a backstabbing free for all of individual contractors.

Then you have the audacity to call others management shills? And your big plan is to do nothing and hope that there isn't enough flight training infrastructure which will magically get us all huge raises. Meanwhile the system will collapse and we will get cabotage and MPL ratings and ATP reductions, which apparently you think is superior to actually having a system that trains entry level 1500 hour pilots.

No one is talking about flooding the streets with billions of new ATP's. But our current system isn't getting it done, due in large part to "the lost decade" that saw the foundation crumble beneath it. Airlines are lobbying and preparing to invest in flight training anyway. That is going to happen. If we sit on the sidelines and act smug pretending we will be the champions in a never ending bidding war, we will be doing the heavy lifting of the Gulf airlines and others for them. Which I suspect you like.

They are paving the way for MPL and reduced minimums, when what we need is experience. Your fantasy of it costing a quarter million dollars to learn to fly (and then graduating with lower mins and an MPL) will not translate into higher pay for us. It will create a system ripe with government training subsidies, indentured servitude contracts and training bonds and a new generation of low time wonders. Oh and hopefully no seniority lists. Right.

Your crusade is clear.

I would enjoy the discussion were it not for your lame attempts to "out" me as management or whatever just because I disagree with your vision on flight training in the civilian sector. If anyone is a management shill its you.

 

the 'upside' of the MPL option is that pilots on those programs have NO mobility whatsoever, since they're trained to a specific airline's specifications.

It's better than the seniority shackles. for Management, that is..

 

There is no provision for them under any existing contracts though, other than bottom of the list to fly what they can hold. Their lack of mobility doesn't change their compensation either, so this wouldn't be much of a win for management at all. The only reason for them to attempt it would be because they sat on their rear ends and did nothing and suddenly couldn't find 1500 hour pilots for mainlines. That is highly unlikely anyway.

At DL the ER has been going to new hires but after this summer's build up that fleet is going to be shrinking. Even now there is no way for management to guarantee a future MPL pilot would be able to hold it, and even if they do get it the category is mostly domestic anyway.

Maybe we'll give up MD88 Cruise Pilot MPL positions out of seniority in exchange for a raise though lol! Or…OR…maybe the regionals will have MPL cruise RJ pilots hahahahahahahaha! Captain's leg, every leg, for great success!

 

• You are accusing me of having opinions for which I have not actually stated.
  
• I'm certain I have been doing this far longer than you have.
  
• And you are going back and forth on your statements. But you are still coming across as someone who has a vested interest in increasing the labor supply.