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Old 08-24-2015 | 06:03 PM
  #1501  
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From: blueJet
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If RAH goes Chapter 11, it wont be because of anything the pilot group votes for or against.

That said, Chapter 11 could go two ways and this is entirely under the pilot group's control:

Scenario 1)
Pilots vote in the LBFO and - a day, week, or month later - Bedford files bankruptcy stating that the new pilot contract helped push the company over the edge. As part of restructuring, the company requests that the court reject the pilot contract via the 1113 process.

Company lawyers present each part of the new contract and will have no trouble convincing the judge that RAH pilots are making above-average pay and compensation. The company will present an alternate contract and testify that, under their proposed contract, RAH will have a chance of restructuring successfully.

Legal Note - This company-written 1113 contract could be worse than the contract you've been stuck with all these years.

Another Legal Note - The judge is prohibited from considering that you have worked under a sub-par contract for the last 10 years. The only contract he can consider is the one in effect on the day of bankruptcy filing.

Another Legal Note - The judge can not impose his own contract on the pilot group; if he is convinced to reject the current pilot contract, he must impose the company's proposed 1113 contract WITHOUT MODIFICATION. The judge does not have the latitude to impose a middle-of-the-road contract; it's all-or-nothing.

Judge throws out LBFO contract and allows company to impose new draconian contract on pilot group. After restructuring, negotiations can begin on new contract.

Scenario 2)
Pilots vote down the LBFO and Bedford files bankruptcy. In order to reject the pilot contract under 1113, company lawyers need to prove that RAH pilots make more money than their peers, i.e. RAH pilot pay and compensation are part of the reason RAH can not be competitive in today's regional market. This argument simply can not be won if RAH pay is below industry average.

As a 1113 counter-argument, the IBT presents the company's Official Last Best Offer and testifies that Bedford is on record saying the RAH pilot pay and compensation need to be increased to attract the pilots necessary for RAH's future success.

Judge has no compelling reason to reject old pilot contract. After restructuring, negotiations can begin on new contract.

Both scenarios suck, so take your pick.

Here's some legal reading if you want to understand the 1113 process:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...KzphDSRgGHeJow
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Old 08-25-2015 | 02:16 AM
  #1502  
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Originally Posted by Boomer
If RAH goes Chapter 11, it wont be because of anything the pilot group votes for or against.

That said, Chapter 11 could go two ways and this is entirely under the pilot group's control:

Scenario 1)
Pilots vote in the LBFO and - a day, week, or month later - Bedford files bankruptcy stating that the new pilot contract helped push the company over the edge. As part of restructuring, the company requests that the court reject the pilot contract via the 1113 process.

Company lawyers present each part of the new contract and will have no trouble convincing the judge that RAH pilots are making above-average pay and compensation. The company will present an alternate contract and testify that, under their proposed contract, RAH will have a chance of restructuring successfully.

Legal Note - This company-written 1113 contract could be worse than the contract you've been stuck with all these years.

Another Legal Note - The judge is prohibited from considering that you have worked under a sub-par contract for the last 10 years. The only contract he can consider is the one in effect on the day of bankruptcy filing.

Another Legal Note - The judge can not impose his own contract on the pilot group; if he is convinced to reject the current pilot contract, he must impose the company's proposed 1113 contract WITHOUT MODIFICATION. The judge does not have the latitude to impose a middle-of-the-road contract; it's all-or-nothing.

Judge throws out LBFO contract and allows company to impose new draconian contract on pilot group. After restructuring, negotiations can begin on new contract.

Scenario 2)
Pilots vote down the LBFO and Bedford files bankruptcy. In order to reject the pilot contract under 1113, company lawyers need to prove that RAH pilots make more money than their peers, i.e. RAH pilot pay and compensation are part of the reason RAH can not be competitive in today's regional market. This argument simply can not be won if RAH pay is below industry average.

As a 1113 counter-argument, the IBT presents the company's Official Last Best Offer and testifies that Bedford is on record saying the RAH pilot pay and compensation need to be increased to attract the pilots necessary for RAH's future success.

Judge has no compelling reason to reject old pilot contract. After restructuring, negotiations can begin on new contract.

Both scenarios suck, so take your pick.

Here's some legal reading if you want to understand the 1113 process:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...KzphDSRgGHeJow
Any gutting of present contractual pilot provisions by management in a chapter 11 scenario will only virtually assure RAH's demise. Bedford will have to be VERY, VERY careful how he handles his pilots in chapter 11. The mere appearance of anything negative, let alone draconian will be akin to Seppuku for him and that may be something he cannot regain if he loses control of it.

Adfitionally, in chapter 11, it's entirely possible for another party to get control of RAH meaning chapter 11 results in new owners and/or consolidation. The new LBFO threat could be a minefield for the present RAH pilots under such a scenario depending on the language or lack thereof.
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Old 08-25-2015 | 04:27 AM
  #1503  
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Originally Posted by eaglefly
Any gutting of present contractual pilot provisions by management in a chapter 11 scenario will only virtually assure RAH's demise. Bedford will have to be VERY, VERY careful how he handles his pilots in chapter 11. The mere appearance of anything negative, let alone draconian will be akin to Seppuku for him and that may be something he cannot regain if he loses control of it.

Adfitionally, in chapter 11, it's entirely possible for another party to get control of RAH meaning chapter 11 results in new owners and/or consolidation. The new LBFO threat could be a minefield for the present RAH pilots under such a scenario depending on the language or lack thereof.
Don't underestimate the cunning sliminess of the Seabury Group. Some pilots think they're pretty smart but this "consulting" group wins the Smarts Award. They know what they're doing and will deceive you guys all day long. Their specialty is making management look like they're angles while making the labor groups look like the bad guys in bankruptcy court.

Seabury Group
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Old 08-25-2015 | 07:18 AM
  #1504  
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Originally Posted by AlaskaBound
Don't underestimate the cunning sliminess of the Seabury Group. Some pilots think they're pretty smart but this "consulting" group wins the Smarts Award. They know what they're doing and will deceive you guys all day long. Their specialty is making management look like they're angles while making the labor groups look like the bad guys in bankruptcy court.

Seabury Group
This can't be understated. Seabury has the IBT outgunned in every way possible.
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Old 08-25-2015 | 07:42 AM
  #1505  
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All this talk of bankruptcy should be reinforced by the idea that top RAH corporate officials have been selling their company stock.

RJET's insider trading transactions, planned sales - MSN Money

Why would Rev. Bedford and the boys be selling their stock as it has continued to decline IF they believed in the profitability and viability of the company going forward.
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Old 08-25-2015 | 08:33 AM
  #1506  
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From: blueJet
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Originally Posted by Rahlifer
This can't be understated. Seabury has the IBT outgunned in every way possible.
+1.

Voting in ANY contract written by the company's lawyers?

Good luck with that.
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Old 08-25-2015 | 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Rahlifer
This can't be understated. Seabury has the IBT outgunned in every way possible.
Perhaps, but the only way they REALLY can win is not fleecing IBT, but the pilots and only the pilots can let that happen. They've already nullified the union as they can't prevent this from going to the pilots without future jeopardy and blame. The only thing left to do now is fleece the pilots.......or more accurately IMO, to get the pilots to fleece themselves.

Pilots usually crumble to threats of doom and gloom especially with a lollipop offer provided they behave and that will likely occur. Then, as time goes on and more pilots there become more tethered to RAH as they get older, more senior with more invested, the more dependent they become and even less likely to defend themselves from future assaults. Some make it out to legacy's and LCC's and what not, but many will end up with long tenures of suffering a'la the battered wife and the Stockholm Syndrome.

Poor bastards.
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Old 08-25-2015 | 09:20 AM
  #1508  
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Republic Warns of Chapter 11 Option If Pilots Reject Contract - Bloomberg Business

This is union busting 101 guys. Do not flinch. You DO hold the cards.

Good luck.
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Old 08-25-2015 | 09:31 AM
  #1509  
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Originally Posted by SmitteyB
Republic Warns of Chapter 11 Option If Pilots Reject Contract - Bloomberg Business

This is union busting 101 guys. Do not flinch. You DO hold the cards.

Good luck.
So let me get this straight. This proposed offer, from my understanding, is more expensive than current book. YET if it fails to pass (again despite being MORE expensive) it will force the company into bankruptcy by keeping the cheaper status quo.

*** comes up with this ****?
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Old 08-25-2015 | 09:35 AM
  #1510  
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Originally Posted by CAirBear
So let me get this straight. This proposed offer, from my understanding, is more expensive than current book. YET if it fails to pass (again despite being MORE expensive) it will force the company into bankruptcy by keeping the cheaper status quo.

*** comes up with this ****?
It's a scare tactic - plain and simple. The company is effectively scaring the pilot which will force their hand in voting in this mediocre offer.
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