Originally Posted by MiLtoMajor123 (Post 2133863)

Is it just a rumor that some west coast bases will expand? how many? Where do they go? Trying to game my transfer out of ORD a bit.

What does Horizon's purchase of E175s do to our expected expansion with shared domiciles SEA and PDX? Thoughts??

Originally Posted by FLCHGo (Post 2133980)

Even with QX, SEA and PDX will grow because we have 20 Alaska planes coming. Much of the 19 DL planes will be going to SEA maybe LAX as well. Either we replace Compass in SEA/LAX or we replace our current CRJs there.

Originally Posted by disillusioned (Post 2133955)

Cool that they are putting together reporting with the info from the exit interviews. Where do we go to see that report? I'm sure it's information that will be distributed to the line pilots and I just can't find it on that awful website we have.



Now I know that I am not normally one to spread sunshine, but let's make sure we are looking at the whole picture here.

Pay raise - 1.5% over 18 months. Nice I guess, but doesn't even keep up with the COLA that we gave up when we gave the Bro pilots their big raise. Another 1.5% in January 2017

Pilot Bonus - Again nice to have. I think I figured this to be close to 3% so that would help offset the loss of COLA. But if you leave before it's paid out then you get nothing. Kinda bum deal for those that get to move on but I am sure it won't keep them up at night when they are in training at Delta or United.

Increased retirement - 1% At this rate, we will only need 9 more pay package votes get closer to Delta's retirement. Also not close to our sister company with their 2-6% DC on top of their 401k

Better work rules - I was kinda lost on this one? We should've got way more QOL stuff IMO but you must be talking about the 1:4 TAFB change? The one that CW ran numbers on before the vote and showed that there would be minimal improvement with our MSP lines? So the company needed to be more efficient with our lower staffing and they convinced us that this was a win for us? We should've asked for a 1:2 pay ratio for any sit in a SW domicile over 2 hours. You want to schedule a 4 hour sit in SEA? Okay I'll take the extra 2 hours pay. That would've forced more efficient schedules instead of the TAFB ratio. Were there other huge work rules that I missed? One extra day guaranteed off? Sorry I don't think anyone should be working 19 days a month unless they want to. And all this did was just make my bid harder to solve because it has one less day to work with.

Increased MDG - 12 minutes. Again not life shattering and I haven't seen much schedule improvement because of it. I would have rather kept the 4 hours with a rule that PBS must solve my bid at 83 hours minimum each month and any extra flying forced above that is time and a half. That would be improved work rules.

But your last line really takes the cake and in my opinion is exactly we got with the new pay package. While it is great that reserves only have to spend a month or so on reserve. Being so busy that we can't get any time off is not a value add for the pilots. And on top of that, if we have to call in for any reason (you know like sick kids, sick self, exhaustion) then we get to be threatened and told what a horrible employee we are. Great that we are adding a bunch of pilots, but it is too little too late. We will never be able to get ahead of the massive attrition we will see and with all the new flying we are taking on.

Originally Posted by peepz (Post 2133751)

Not going to happen.

Hypothetically if it did, holy crap would those people have a bad QOL. As soon as those (325) hit 1000, perpetual reserve.

Also your math is way off lol. You have no idea the experience of those 325. Some might be a lot closer than you think :D

Originally Posted by MrSkywest (Post 2134108)

So it sounds like the answer to my question is that SW requires 1000 hours of SW or jet time?

The fact that a few of the 325 may have a lot of other experience does not make my math "way off lol". I think you would agree that the majority of those 325 don't have a lot of jet experience.


SW is back to less than 3 year upgrades. SW has a bunch of planes coming quickly. It will not be long before we are down to the 2 year upgrade. As that happens we get into quantum effects if you will, with a much higher % of FOs not feeling ready to upgrade or not having the 1000 hours (Jet or SW?).

As all these things happen the company will have to make adjustments to continue to get pilots quickly enough. Higher pay will come and SW will compete more in the pay area than it has because it will have to. The other airlines can't grow because of lack of pilots but SW can and will if it can get the new hires to come to SW.

If SW has a 1000 jet time requirement it could easily end up with a street captain situation, as could all airlines. I don't know why so many regional pilots see huge increases in pay rates as something that won't happen. The Chinese airlines have just increased their contract rates to 287,000 for a captain, a big increase. The regionals can get more pilots, a lot more, if they increase the pay rates a lot. The guys with experience who are out there, and I know many, don't consider 36 an hour as a serious pay scale. Even if hired as a captain they don's consider 64 a flight hour as enough either. There should be no regional captain making less than about 110 an hour if you want to set the rate at what the market demands. I am probably on the low side of this. The pilots who are out there and not willing to work have 10000 to 25000 hours. If you pay them they will come. IMHO.

Originally Posted by MrSkywest (Post 2134108)

So it sounds like the answer to my question is that SW requires 1000 hours of SW or jet time?

The fact that a few of the 325 may have a lot of other experience does not make my math "way off lol". I think you would agree that the majority of those 325 don't have a lot of jet experience.


SW is back to less than 3 year upgrades. SW has a bunch of planes coming quickly. It will not be long before we are down to the 2 year upgrade. As that happens we get into quantum effects if you will, with a much higher % of FOs not feeling ready to upgrade or not having the 1000 hours (Jet or SW?).

As all these things happen the company will have to make adjustments to continue to get pilots quickly enough. Higher pay will come and SW will compete more in the pay area than it has because it will have to. The other airlines can't grow because of lack of pilots but SW can and will if it can get the new hires to come to SW.

If SW has a 1000 jet time requirement it could easily end up with a street captain situation, as could all airlines. I don't know why so many regional pilots see huge increases in pay rates as something that won't happen. The Chinese airlines have just increased their contract rates to 287,000 for a captain, a big increase. The regionals can get more pilots, a lot more, if they increase the pay rates a lot. The guys with experience who are out there, and I know many, don't consider 36 an hour as a serious pay scale. Even if hired as a captain they don's consider 64 a flight hour as enough either. There should be no regional captain making less than about 110 an hour if you want to set the rate at what the market demands. I am probably on the low side of this. The pilots who are out there and not willing to work have 10000 to 25000 hours. If you pay them they will come. IMHO.

Originally Posted by word302 (Post 2134152)

I think you may have skipped statistics in high school. While the upgrade might get close to 2 years for a short time, anything less than that is nearly numerically impossible. Our training department could handle maybe 50 upgrades a month maximum. Do the math man. At 4000 pilots, even if half the FOs defer upgrade, you're looking at nearly 2 years. I guarantee much less than half will defer.

You may also want to familiarize yourself with part 121 regarding what it take to act as PIC. Just sayin'.

Originally Posted by amcnd (Post 2134173)

Well they are doing 40 CRJ and 30 ERJ a month....