Originally Posted by Lincoln Osiris

We can argue about this all night. But I’ll take my info from official ALPA e mails not “how you read it” or what was said on phone call way prior to these current mediation sessions.

Originally Posted by Squeaky banana

5hr min duty period average

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Originally Posted by LloydBraun

Can someone explain this. With 5hr min day and 1:3.5 trip rig how is a 10 hr 3 day or 15 hour 4 day possible.

Originally Posted by Qotsaautopilot

To the other airline guys:

No excuses, this does not help pattern bargaining and is an embarrassment.

What we don’t have that you don’t know is good scope. Any and ALL future growth can be codeshared out to Frontier, WoW (old ceo is on the board), Norwegian, etc. you wanted to know who does it cheaper than us; they all do. this AIP reigns that in, details unknown. That is a big deal though.

Also, our current LTD only pays for two years not til 65. Right now I’d get about $7k taxable for two years then- bubkus. This AIP removes that risk from my family immediately not later. Call it fear if you want but our medicals are so fragile.

Pbs, the majority of the pilots said they were willing to go to pbs to get a deal. Well here it is and many details unknown. The question is, is it enough for pbs because there so far are not many glaringly poor details that we didn’t already know about and some better than expected (we pick the vendor and vacation credit)

So if we vote it down it’s basically for more pay. So I lose $70k from a no vote to passing the next offer (both southwest and Delta waited about a year and they had other major issues for a no vote besides just pay). To make up that $70k lost I have to make $16 more an hour in the next offer just to break even. So I need at least $30/hr more to make it worth it and the whole time I have to carry that scope and LTD risk you guys at other carriers don’t have to shoulder while you wait. Also, while waiting I’m pushing out my next amendable date from 2023 to 2024 just to start this mess again.

So the question is do I think I can get $30/hr more a year from now? Do I want to push out my amendable date another year, and can I handle my massive scope and medical risk in that time and hope it doesn’t bite me.

I don’t think I can get another $30 in a year from these crooks, I don’t trust them not to codeshare, I absolutely don’t want to take the massive medical risk, and I don’t want to push out my amendable date another year.

Do I wish it was better? You're damn right! Do I think the NC got the best deal they could considering the NMB seem to be negotiating with the company? Yes.

Obviously the AIP is just bullet points so we need to see the full text but you can see we got some huge things in this that make waiting for probably minimally more pay difficult. Things that you guys already have at other airlines.

Originally Posted by lowandslow

Originally Posted by atrdriver

Day 1: XXX-YYY 1958 2308 Block 0510
D-END: 2323L
Day 3: YYY-XXX 2358 0551 Block 0353
D-END: 0606L T.A.F.B.: 3508 TRIP RIG: 0059
Total: Block 0903 Credit 1002

That is a 3 day trip with a 5 hour duty period average and 1:3.5 trip rig. Pays 10:02.

Originally Posted by Qotsaautopilot

To the other airline guys:

No excuses, this does not help pattern bargaining and is an embarrassment.

What we don’t have that you don’t know is good scope. Any and ALL future growth can be codeshared out to Frontier, WoW (old ceo is on the board), Norwegian, etc. you wanted to know who does it cheaper than us; they all do. this AIP reigns that in, details unknown. That is a big deal though.

Also, our current LTD only pays for two years not til 65. Right now I’d get about $7k taxable for two years then- bubkus. This AIP removes that risk from my family immediately not later. Call it fear if you want but our medicals are so fragile.

Retirement is a massive improvement with a DC. We have a 9% match right now and under no circumstances is the company going to ever give me more than $18.5k. Now it’s a percentage of everything we make with no personal contribution required and if our top earners are hitting the combined personal and company contribution ($53k I think) they are getting the overage in cash. Spirits last offer had them keeping the overage for themselves. Did I want industry standard 16% at dos? Yes! Southwest didn’t even get that and the DC was a big reason they voted down their first deal as would I if we weren’t getting it. This is a huge improvement.

Pbs, the majority of the pilots said they were willing to go to pbs to get a deal. Well here it is and many details unknown. The question is, is it enough for pbs because there so far are not many glaringly poor details that we didn’t already know about and some better than expected (we pick the vendor and vacation credit)

So if we vote it down it’s basically for more pay. So I lose $70k from a no vote to passing the next offer (both southwest and Delta waited about a year and they had other major issues for a no vote besides just pay). To make up that $70k lost I have to make $16 more an hour in the next offer just to break even. So I need at least $30/hr more to make it worth it and the whole time I have to carry that scope and LTD risk you guys at other carriers don’t have to shoulder while you wait. Also, while waiting I’m pushing out my next amendable date from 2023 to 2024 just to start this mess again.

So the question is do I think I can get $30/hr more a year from now? Do I want to push out my amendable date another year, and can I handle my massive scope and medical risk in that time and hope it doesn’t bite me.

I don’t think I can get another $30 in a year from these crooks, I don’t trust them not to codeshare, I absolutely don’t want to take the massive medical risk, and I don’t want to push out my amendable date another year.

Do I wish it was better? You're damn right! Do I think the NC got the best deal they could considering the NMB seem to be negotiating with the company? Yes.

Obviously the AIP is just bullet points so we need to see the full text but you can see we got some huge things in this that make waiting for probably minimally more pay difficult. Things that you guys already have at other airlines.

Originally Posted by Lincoln Osiris

Is this a 3 day with a greater than 24 hour layover? If so I don’t think that is correct. A 3 day shouldn’t pay 10 hours of credit like that.

Originally Posted by atrdriver

Day 1: XXX-YYY 1958 2308 Block 0510
D-END: 2323L
Day 3: YYY-XXX 2358 0551 Block 0353
D-END: 0606L T.A.F.B.: 3508 TRIP RIG: 0059
Total: Block 0903 Credit 1002

That is a 3 day trip with a 5 hour duty period average and 1:3.5 trip rig. Pays 10:02.

Originally Posted by atrdriver

The layover is 23:50. The AIP work rules exactly match what we have currently (5 hour DP average, 1:3.5 trip rig), and I copied and pasted a 3 day from our open time.