We got an AIP!
01-19-2018 | 08:27 PM
#641
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 195
Likes: 0
This is a complete and utter BS.
First of all, let’s get one thing straight... no such thing as “violating CBA” to credit anything. Our CBA provides for us to be able to credit these kinds of numbers and occasionally, it’d be involuntary as well.
The reason you’re gaining 40%+ percent is because you’re just that grossly underpaid in comparison to your peers flying the same or similar type of aircraft, not because your management is feeling charitable and wants to reward you for your contribution to their success.
Part of our TA1 at Southwest was that we would gain additional 0.7% match contribution to our 401k. The pathetic thing was that 38% of the weak sisters voted yes on this garbage and in today’s environment!
Following rejection of this garbage, we had special election, new negotiations committee formed, several mediated negotiations and we ended up with TA2, voted on, with full or almost full retro (depends who you ask) less than a year later... In the end, we got the proper B-plan and the improvements we sought. One of those improvements was to our reserve where now a reserve pilot could credit crazy numbers... the kind you call “violating CBA.” We fell short in some areas, but it was a massive improvement over TA1 and it took some intestinal fortitude which sadly seems to be lacking among some of you.
It’s not on me or any OAL pilot to tell you how to vote. If it were me, from the payrates alone and PBS being instituted, combined with tax break all our airlines will be getting, it would be the easiest NO ever, but that’s me. The mediator CANNOT hurt you. They don’t measure success by getting you a FAIR contract. They measure success by getting both of you to sign something and move on. A mediator is actually allowed to lie to either party “to spur the negotiations.” Don’t believe me... look it up yourself.
The reality is very simple. The company negotiators are there to secure the best possible deal for the shareholders and the management team. Your union’s job is to secure the best deal for its membership. The mediator is there to help bring it to a close.... nothing more, nothing less. In the end, you decide what’s enough and what your career is worth and you vote accordingly. It seems to me that you believe that your career is worth less than that of a Southwest pilot... or a United pilot... or a Delta pilot... even Alaska pilot. Your CEO doesn’t think he’s worth less, but he and his team have done a fantastic job making you feel that you are. He and his negotiators should get the biggest and the fattest raise and a bonus if you sign this. It would be well deserved.
One word to describe it... unfortunate.
First of all, let’s get one thing straight... no such thing as “violating CBA” to credit anything. Our CBA provides for us to be able to credit these kinds of numbers and occasionally, it’d be involuntary as well.
The reason you’re gaining 40%+ percent is because you’re just that grossly underpaid in comparison to your peers flying the same or similar type of aircraft, not because your management is feeling charitable and wants to reward you for your contribution to their success.
Part of our TA1 at Southwest was that we would gain additional 0.7% match contribution to our 401k. The pathetic thing was that 38% of the weak sisters voted yes on this garbage and in today’s environment!
Following rejection of this garbage, we had special election, new negotiations committee formed, several mediated negotiations and we ended up with TA2, voted on, with full or almost full retro (depends who you ask) less than a year later... In the end, we got the proper B-plan and the improvements we sought. One of those improvements was to our reserve where now a reserve pilot could credit crazy numbers... the kind you call “violating CBA.” We fell short in some areas, but it was a massive improvement over TA1 and it took some intestinal fortitude which sadly seems to be lacking among some of you.
It’s not on me or any OAL pilot to tell you how to vote. If it were me, from the payrates alone and PBS being instituted, combined with tax break all our airlines will be getting, it would be the easiest NO ever, but that’s me. The mediator CANNOT hurt you. They don’t measure success by getting you a FAIR contract. They measure success by getting both of you to sign something and move on. A mediator is actually allowed to lie to either party “to spur the negotiations.” Don’t believe me... look it up yourself.
The reality is very simple. The company negotiators are there to secure the best possible deal for the shareholders and the management team. Your union’s job is to secure the best deal for its membership. The mediator is there to help bring it to a close.... nothing more, nothing less. In the end, you decide what’s enough and what your career is worth and you vote accordingly. It seems to me that you believe that your career is worth less than that of a Southwest pilot... or a United pilot... or a Delta pilot... even Alaska pilot. Your CEO doesn’t think he’s worth less, but he and his team have done a fantastic job making you feel that you are. He and his negotiators should get the biggest and the fattest raise and a bonus if you sign this. It would be well deserved.
One word to describe it... unfortunate.
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01-19-2018 | 08:30 PM
#642
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
Spirit doesn’t have RJ’s to whipsaw legacy rates, and SW will eventually be in a world of hurt without a global code share. ULCC’s built by Frankie and others world wide are coming to fruition whether pilots like it or not. A global ULCC code share network is inevitable. The Spirit TA needs strong scope, pay, LTD, and retirement to protect us while we transition through the next evolution in airline travel. History depicts a pilot’s perceived best airline of ‘Today’ is the one most venerable to failure tomorrow.
01-19-2018 | 08:36 PM
#643
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
No, that’s not why our NC and the company didn’t meet face-to-face for 4 months. They didn’t meet because discussions led to a demand of PBS from the company, the mediator wanted to hear it play out, and our NC was not authorized by our MEC to negotiate into an agreement containing PBS language. Put simply, our NC needed time to poll the membership for a possible change in negotiation direction. Notice that after this was accomplished we were back at it in relative short order. We were NEVER “iced”; in fact, the NMB doesn’t even recognize that term! But don’t trust me—ask your rep!
Sep 9
Mediated negotiations continued in Baltimore Wednesday through Friday, and ultimately concluded with no deal reached and no further bargaining dates set by the NMB.
Sep 21
Talks broke off 10 days ago when Spirit failed to recognize the pilots’ need for Scope, LTD,and RIG improvements, and overplayed their hand―by demanding PBS that we told them would be highly unpopular.
Our plan to get a contract is to engage in a campaign of strategic communications targeting both the financial community and the flying public designed to bring the company back to
the table. Further, the SPSC campaign will utilize all lawful opportunities to demonstrate our unity and resolve, with informational picketing and other events planned to take place
this month and in the months to come.
English obviously not 1st language, but I no see survey to get back to table. Also quote #1 looks like nc wants to talk but NMB say NO.
01-19-2018 | 08:57 PM
#644
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 550
Likes: 0
From: A320 CA
01-20-2018 | 01:33 AM
#646
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,600
Likes: 33
Hilarious.
01-20-2018 | 01:54 AM
#648
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,169
Likes: 164
From: NK CA
I said it before and I’ll say it again. Throughout this whole process everyone has been shouting “work rules work rules!” And then when we keep most of them we are shocked that the pay rates arnt the same as UAL. If we want UAL pay rates then we have to accept UAL work rules. Something I am more than happy to do but after polling done by the MEC early on in this process I think work rules was one of the top things on the list. So we can keep work rules or get legacy pay (or close) not both.
01-20-2018 | 02:06 AM
#649
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 356
Likes: 74
Speaking of history... when was it that SWA finally stopped dragging down the rest of the industry with its substandard pay rates? My guess is the early 2000’s when all of the legacies started declaring bankruptcy, after SWA had already been around for 30+ years and even then only as the result of the misfortune of the rest of the industry. I get it... this contract falls short of where it should be on pay rates. The reality is that from the looks of it this AIP achieves most of our goals (scope, LTD, retirement, rigs). We are not fortunate enough to be in the bargaining position you guys were last time. Hopefully next time that won’t be the case but for you to come on here and try to equate our current negotiations to your most recent ones is asinine.
01-20-2018 | 03:21 AM
#650
Banned
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 409
Likes: 0
His perspective is not ours. Neither are those from Delta who voted down their TA1. We are Spirit pilots. We need to pick through this TA and make our own determination if this is an acceptable agreement. Having people on the sidelines cheering one way or another is not helpful. Providing insight is one thing, cheering for a particular vote cause it affects THEIR prospective negotiating stance is asinine. They are not in our position. WE ARE.
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