Originally Posted by symbian simian

Hi bud. Not sure if we need your input in EVERY single exchange here. Thanks

Originally Posted by symbian simian

Maybe I should have been more clear. The stagnant remark was in the context of the JB/NK merger. So do you think JB has grown faster than NK or not. If so, you should prefer RS over DOH. If not you worked for a carrier that wasn't as successful growing as the other one. And maybe that should take some wind out of the DOH being the better metric.

I really don't know what is fair. But after being in the industry for 20 years, I ended up at NK. And after 9 years I am at 20% RS. Personally, I don't think that going to 38% RS based on DOH would be fair. And the reason I would be going down would be because JB didn't grow as much as NK. So to hear we should be grateful to join isn't awesome. I would prefer no merger. Yes, your pay rates are higher, but I would be an FO if I was at JB.

And I am way more antagonistic than 99% of the NK pilots, and actually, in person not that bad, but it is APC required to be a keyboard warrior.

Originally Posted by Chimpy

With inability to really drop and move trips around with ease, and yanno, some of us wanting to have a life outside of flying airplanes we’ll need to work on QOL stuff too. I hope everyone refuses to bend over for a shiny F’ng payrate or the opportunity to “fly widebody” planes.

Originally Posted by symbian simian

Hi bud. Not sure if we need your input in EVERY single exchange here. Thanks

Originally Posted by Bluedriver

You had a growth peak during your short time at NK. You could not get hired today and reach 20% within 9 years. JB had a growth peak several years before NKs, and during that time they moved up faster than the guys sitting at the top of your list. Both NK and JB are growing similar in real terms now, not some fantasy order book math you can't actually staff. It's not the arbitrators job to determine which few years in an airlines history were peak growth years and tailor a list for what benefits Symbian to the maximum extent possible and to the detriment of anyone and everyone else.

And I consider Payne to be a friend, so I won't cower in a corner while you try and ambush him with "Symbian logic".

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Originally Posted by Cyio

Are you saying that they could hold a CA slot in MCO/LAX with 9 years seniority? They certainly wouldn't be 20%.

Originally Posted by Bluedriver

You had a growth peak during your short time at NK. You could not get hired today and reach 20% within 9 years. JB had a growth peak several years before NKs, and during that time they moved up faster than the guys sitting at the top of your list. Both NK and JB are growing similar in real terms now, not some fantasy order book math you can't actually staff. It's not the arbitrators job to determine which few years in an airlines history were peak growth years and tailor a list for what benefits Symbian to the maximum extent possible and to the detriment of anyone and everyone else.

And I consider Payne to be a friend, so I won't cower in a corner while you try and ambush him with "Symbian logic".

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Originally Posted by pilotpayne

I was going to point that out but I didn’t see the point. It’s more emotional vs facts. I understand it is part emotional since it is our life but at the same time (as you know) both sides will make their arguments and we will end up in arbitration. Nothing we can do.

Originally Posted by symbian simian

Maybe I should have been more clear. The stagnant remark was in the context of the JB/NK merger. So do you think JB has grown faster than NK or not. If so, you should prefer RS over DOH. If not you worked for a carrier that wasn't as successful growing as the other one. And maybe that should take some wind out of the DOH being the better metric.

I really don't know what is fair. But after being in the industry for 20 years, I ended up at NK. And after 9 years I am at 20% RS. Personally, I don't think that going to 38% RS based on DOH would be fair. And the reason I would be going down would be because JB didn't grow as much as NK. So to hear we should be grateful to join isn't awesome. I would prefer no merger. Yes, your pay rates are higher, but I would be an FO if I was at JB.

And I am way more antagonistic than 99% of the NK pilots, and actually, in person not that bad, but it is APC required to be a keyboard warrior.

Originally Posted by Bluedriver

Has JB grown faster than NK? JetBlue has grown to almost 300 aircraft in 22 years. Spirit has grown to ~160 aircraft in 39 years.

Or does the time only count while Symbian is on property?