Spirit of NKS
06-26-2014 | 08:23 PM
#7522
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,603
Likes: 0
Bad day worse day trade
It's not really a term spirit uses but would benefit both pilots and company.
The company fight the red green issue because they don't want people dropping for added days off and open flying as a result. That is an issue but some people just want to trade trips outside of the days they are currently working. That could be possible many times (not always) with a bad day worse day trade.
Example: you want to trade (swap) a 4 day trip from 7/7-7/10 for 4 day trip 7/11-7/14. All days are red on both trips for this example
Example reserve grid:
7/7 red 8
7/8 red 12
7/9 red 3
7/10 red 6
Total red coverage for trip = red 29
7/11 red 8
7/12 green 6
7/13 red 12
7/15 red 16
Total red coverage for trip = 30 (green day works as credit of 6 here)
So if red is bad and green is good then both of these trips have over all bad reserve coverage for a drop but to swap "bad" trip A for "worse" trip B should be completely doable.
This example was a simple 4 day for 4 day over completely different days but the solution can still work for trips of different lengths or combinations of trips or even trips that have some overlap in days just as long as the total of what you are swapping to is worse (more red) than the total red of what you currently have and want to swap out of.
It helps the company because the pilot is working a trip on days with worse reserve coverage than the trip he originally had while allowing a little flexibility to the pilot. Sure the numbers won't always work but to say we need a bunch of green to drop trip A just to pick up trip B when a simple swap could benefit everyone is just silly. This should be a MOU like yesterday. It's a no brainer.
It's not really a term spirit uses but would benefit both pilots and company.
The company fight the red green issue because they don't want people dropping for added days off and open flying as a result. That is an issue but some people just want to trade trips outside of the days they are currently working. That could be possible many times (not always) with a bad day worse day trade.
Example: you want to trade (swap) a 4 day trip from 7/7-7/10 for 4 day trip 7/11-7/14. All days are red on both trips for this example
Example reserve grid:
7/7 red 8
7/8 red 12
7/9 red 3
7/10 red 6
Total red coverage for trip = red 29
7/11 red 8
7/12 green 6
7/13 red 12
7/15 red 16
Total red coverage for trip = 30 (green day works as credit of 6 here)
So if red is bad and green is good then both of these trips have over all bad reserve coverage for a drop but to swap "bad" trip A for "worse" trip B should be completely doable.
This example was a simple 4 day for 4 day over completely different days but the solution can still work for trips of different lengths or combinations of trips or even trips that have some overlap in days just as long as the total of what you are swapping to is worse (more red) than the total red of what you currently have and want to swap out of.
It helps the company because the pilot is working a trip on days with worse reserve coverage than the trip he originally had while allowing a little flexibility to the pilot. Sure the numbers won't always work but to say we need a bunch of green to drop trip A just to pick up trip B when a simple swap could benefit everyone is just silly. This should be a MOU like yesterday. It's a no brainer.
06-26-2014 | 08:56 PM
#7523
ULTP-Ultra Low Tier Pilot
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,228
Likes: 0
Bad day worse day trade
It's not really a term spirit uses but would benefit both pilots and company.
The company fight the red green issue because they don't want people dropping for added days off and open flying as a result. That is an issue but some people just want to trade trips outside of the days they are currently working. That could be possible many times (not always) with a bad day worse day trade.
Example: you want to trade (swap) a 4 day trip from 7/7-7/10 for 4 day trip 7/11-7/14. All days are red on both trips for this example
Example reserve grid:
7/7 red 8
7/8 red 12
7/9 red 3
7/10 red 6
Total red coverage for trip = red 29
7/11 red 8
7/12 green 6
7/13 red 12
7/15 red 16
Total red coverage for trip = 30 (green day works as credit of 6 here)
So if red is bad and green is good then both of these trips have over all bad reserve coverage for a drop but to swap "bad" trip A for "worse" trip B should be completely doable.
This example was a simple 4 day for 4 day over completely different days but the solution can still work for trips of different lengths or combinations of trips or even trips that have some overlap in days just as long as the total of what you are swapping to is worse (more red) than the total red of what you currently have and want to swap out of.
It helps the company because the pilot is working a trip on days with worse reserve coverage than the trip he originally had while allowing a little flexibility to the pilot. Sure the numbers won't always work but to say we need a bunch of green to drop trip A just to pick up trip B when a simple swap could benefit everyone is just silly. This should be a MOU like yesterday. It's a no brainer.
It's not really a term spirit uses but would benefit both pilots and company.
The company fight the red green issue because they don't want people dropping for added days off and open flying as a result. That is an issue but some people just want to trade trips outside of the days they are currently working. That could be possible many times (not always) with a bad day worse day trade.
Example: you want to trade (swap) a 4 day trip from 7/7-7/10 for 4 day trip 7/11-7/14. All days are red on both trips for this example
Example reserve grid:
7/7 red 8
7/8 red 12
7/9 red 3
7/10 red 6
Total red coverage for trip = red 29
7/11 red 8
7/12 green 6
7/13 red 12
7/15 red 16
Total red coverage for trip = 30 (green day works as credit of 6 here)
So if red is bad and green is good then both of these trips have over all bad reserve coverage for a drop but to swap "bad" trip A for "worse" trip B should be completely doable.
This example was a simple 4 day for 4 day over completely different days but the solution can still work for trips of different lengths or combinations of trips or even trips that have some overlap in days just as long as the total of what you are swapping to is worse (more red) than the total red of what you currently have and want to swap out of.
It helps the company because the pilot is working a trip on days with worse reserve coverage than the trip he originally had while allowing a little flexibility to the pilot. Sure the numbers won't always work but to say we need a bunch of green to drop trip A just to pick up trip B when a simple swap could benefit everyone is just silly. This should be a MOU like yesterday. It's a no brainer.
As we move forward to contract negotiations, I cant imagine scheduling flexibility getting any better. Its obvious they want PBS and will do everything they can to "show" how bad line bidding is.
Just my guess and .02
06-26-2014 | 11:47 PM
#7524
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 447
Likes: 0
From: More Drag
Don't leave ANYTHING to a software program alone. Allow Skeds to have flexibility as well as a program to approve these transactions "at the concurrence of the pilot and the company".
To move to an automated program alone is suicide. Never handcuff the schedulers or sups to "refer you to flica". Let's them use their discretion at times. Computers don't have brains. People do.
To move to an automated program alone is suicide. Never handcuff the schedulers or sups to "refer you to flica". Let's them use their discretion at times. Computers don't have brains. People do.
06-27-2014 | 05:04 AM
#7525
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,385
Likes: 0
From: Airplane
Some people do.
06-27-2014 | 05:14 AM
#7526
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 949
Likes: 1
From: A320 CA
Bad day worse day trade
It's not really a term spirit uses but would benefit both pilots and company.
The company fight the red green issue because they don't want people dropping for added days off and open flying as a result. That is an issue but some people just want to trade trips outside of the days they are currently working. That could be possible many times (not always) with a bad day worse day trade.
Example: you want to trade (swap) a 4 day trip from 7/7-7/10 for 4 day trip 7/11-7/14. All days are red on both trips for this example
Example reserve grid:
7/7 red 8
7/8 red 12
7/9 red 3
7/10 red 6
Total red coverage for trip = red 29
7/11 red 8
7/12 green 6
7/13 red 12
7/15 red 16
Total red coverage for trip = 30 (green day works as credit of 6 here)
So if red is bad and green is good then both of these trips have over all bad reserve coverage for a drop but to swap "bad" trip A for "worse" trip B should be completely doable.
This example was a simple 4 day for 4 day over completely different days but the solution can still work for trips of different lengths or combinations of trips or even trips that have some overlap in days just as long as the total of what you are swapping to is worse (more red) than the total red of what you currently have and want to swap out of.
It helps the company because the pilot is working a trip on days with worse reserve coverage than the trip he originally had while allowing a little flexibility to the pilot. Sure the numbers won't always work but to say we need a bunch of green to drop trip A just to pick up trip B when a simple swap could benefit everyone is just silly. This should be a MOU like yesterday. It's a no brainer.
It's not really a term spirit uses but would benefit both pilots and company.
The company fight the red green issue because they don't want people dropping for added days off and open flying as a result. That is an issue but some people just want to trade trips outside of the days they are currently working. That could be possible many times (not always) with a bad day worse day trade.
Example: you want to trade (swap) a 4 day trip from 7/7-7/10 for 4 day trip 7/11-7/14. All days are red on both trips for this example
Example reserve grid:
7/7 red 8
7/8 red 12
7/9 red 3
7/10 red 6
Total red coverage for trip = red 29
7/11 red 8
7/12 green 6
7/13 red 12
7/15 red 16
Total red coverage for trip = 30 (green day works as credit of 6 here)
So if red is bad and green is good then both of these trips have over all bad reserve coverage for a drop but to swap "bad" trip A for "worse" trip B should be completely doable.
This example was a simple 4 day for 4 day over completely different days but the solution can still work for trips of different lengths or combinations of trips or even trips that have some overlap in days just as long as the total of what you are swapping to is worse (more red) than the total red of what you currently have and want to swap out of.
It helps the company because the pilot is working a trip on days with worse reserve coverage than the trip he originally had while allowing a little flexibility to the pilot. Sure the numbers won't always work but to say we need a bunch of green to drop trip A just to pick up trip B when a simple swap could benefit everyone is just silly. This should be a MOU like yesterday. It's a no brainer.
06-27-2014 | 06:15 AM
#7527
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 715
Likes: 0
From: A320 Left
This is a total no brainer, I agree. Cant imagine the company agreeing to this without us giving something up, total insanity to even think of that! It does seem like we are in the "punishment time" now with the company and we are seeing their punitive measures regarding red/green. One only has to look at July and see obvious attempts to punish the pilot group; higher than normal required reserves and what a coincidence that every day was green by 1 at the start of IOT.
As we move forward to contract negotiations, I cant imagine scheduling flexibility getting any better. Its obvious they want PBS and will do everything they can to "show" how bad line bidding is.
Just my guess and .02
As we move forward to contract negotiations, I cant imagine scheduling flexibility getting any better. Its obvious they want PBS and will do everything they can to "show" how bad line bidding is.
Just my guess and .02
06-27-2014 | 09:43 AM
#7528
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,125
Likes: 0
From: Under the Frog
Anyone got any details about this?
I mean, for instance, like how we managed to squeeze 300 pax onto an A320?
Traveler recounts nightmare experience with Spirit Airlines at O?Hare | WGN-TV
I mean, for instance, like how we managed to squeeze 300 pax onto an A320?
Traveler recounts nightmare experience with Spirit Airlines at O?Hare | WGN-TV
06-27-2014 | 05:02 PM
#7529
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,857
Likes: 0
Exaggeration, over the top, ORD recurrent.
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