Yeah once I figured out you are not a pilot I realized you can't. Still it is interesting to read your take on things. By the way Mega is at $208 Millions this week.

Now on to a different topic...

In a much older post you have expressed your opinion that SW+1 is not a realistic proposition for Spirit Pilots. The economics are not supporting such a raise. Since you have the numbers, and I don't, I can't argue with that.

But!

What do you say about Spirit's labor cost when it comes to pilot salaries and benefits? How does that look in terms of ASM when compared to other airlines? You don't have to tell me the answer I know it myself. It looks very very pretty.

The way I see it even if we were to get SW pay, in reality we would not. The reason is that we fly on average around 30% more people in our planes than everyone else. So Spirit is getting a 30% discount on top of our already very low pay. Especially when you look at junior (<6y longevity) pay when low longevity pilots make up 2/3rd of the company.

So... again... I do not have the numbers. I also know you can't tell us the numbers. But it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that Spirit is getting a 2 for 1 deal on pilot compensation while they are paying market price for fuel, airplanes, gates, landing fees, etc. So if Spirit has to pay market price on everything else except labour, or else we will be in Ch11, than it is fair to say that Spirit Employees are subsidizing the business model. I mean we all love to contribute to the success of this airline and we have been for the past years... and I am soooooooo happy for our stockholders who made a fortune on the stock in the last couple of years... but I think it is time someone shows us the money.

Which leads me to this latest rumor...

So we hear these rumors about the company is testing the waters by telling our pilots that may be a quick agreement would be beneficial for us. We would leave everything else equal and untouched, and get JB pay. I made some calls, talked to reps but nobody could confirm this. Ok. Whatever. Probably BS but for the sake of argument let's say they are going to give us JB pay and leave the rest as is for a 4 year contract.

At first I said this is total BS. Why give us anything? Just negotiate for 6 years and save every dime in the meantime and then pay. But then I talked to a friend of mine (someone a lot smarter than me) and he made a great point. If Spirit gives us JB and defers negotiation for 4 years, than basically Spirit managed to Secure current JB wages (which are far from spectacular) for basically the next 10-11 years. They will get 4 years and then they get to drag it out for 6-7 years after that until the next contract. Ain't that a discount or what? Especially considering all this would happen before AA gets DAL plus 7% (I think that is the latest offer), and DAL gets whatever on top of that a year later.

I have $100 to bet that in 4-6 years we will be an even bigger success story. You seem to agree. There will be even larger profits, and even bigger airplane orders and we will get that extra 2-3% of market share. Easily. By that time we might actually get some gate space too because I am sure we will be through another recession which will result in capacity cuts at the majors.

So as of today most pilots think SW pay is unrealistic, even I think that. But if the picture I painted becomes reality, nobody is going to buy that 4-6 years down the road. Nobody! So it is indeed in Spirit's interest to close on the deal now and drag it later.

Yeah... so talking rumors... If this proposal is indeed true, I am personally going to vote it down in a hurry.

 

They can compare us to Alaska, not JetBlue!

 

Sorry but I'm not voting yes on a contract with JetBlue rates. We are worth much more. Call me unrealistic but JetBlue +10% would still leave me thoroughly disappointed.

81/hr for 2nd year pay is about $20/hr short from where is should be.

 

It's outright embarrassing how poorly our product is executed sometimes. I am confident in the business execution but the operation blows sometimes.

I don't think there is any good excuse for it. It just needs to change. Period.

Rant complete

 

+1.

I view us as on the end of the last hair of the tail of the industry bargaining cycle. Why bargain hard for last generations industry average rates? We should strive to be in the middle of the next generation contracts.

 

Please don't go for jetBlue pay.
We all build off each other and a big raise for you would help us all.
Good luck guys.

 

I personally don't give a rats ass if the airplane is dirty, that's managements job and if they don't care, it must not be important. Look how filthy subways are, does that stop anyone? I've flown every airline except Alaska and they are all filthy, AA makes us look like we do a good job. As far as clean cockpits? The majority of that filth is from our slobbery ways, we just need to clean up after ourselves is all.

 

Spirit has enormous untapped potential, which attracts new hires.
This needs to be translated into an industry leading contract, with benefits beyond QOL, stability, or the elusive upgrade.
While currently excited with our seniority gains, will we be at a good place when it eventually and surely slows down to attrition?
HR knows that, and they look at older applicants very seriously. Many new hires are in their 50s.
Having been through a bankruptcy and furlough, I am glad to see folks be given a second chance at a career.

The argument that NK comparables are Allegiant, Frontier, or JetBlue, does not agree with their financials or current growth.
The board is selling our product to investors according to present and predicted gains/performance, and so should we, come negotiation time.
Best industry contracts I remember, were achieved during periods of healthy financial forecasts.

I have learned that compensation is far easier to negotiate than lost work rules.
On the flip side, one should not have to chase the upgrade, depend on transition conflict or 100hr months to be able to join the middle class.
Our FO rates may be a "living salary" for a single 30something, but not the average family of four.
Having said that, our reserve rules are one of the weakest parts of our contract, that is when they are enforced.
Regardless of which method you choose, with the current orders it would not be pessimistic to predict
that anyone hired past this summer may not benefit from the "quick upgrade program".
The most optimistic version, is the statement I heard from recent new hires, that we are planning to match JetBlue in size.

Without intending to get too political, our middle class is shrinking.
The poor are getting poorer, while the rich are getting richer, by "controlling" the politicians.
The best defence we have as employees is a strong union, which will lobby for our interests.
While this degradation of our "American Dream" is devastatingly sad, it creates a larger market for the ULC business model.

While I strongly believe our financial future is solid, forecasts and plans, as well intended and sincere as they may be, they are not written in stone, they can, and will change.
Only what is in the contract counts, not stability, growth or quick upgrade.
Great companies, including historic airlines, have gone out, leaving thousands unemployed, while the Executive Officers bailed with their "golden parachutes".
Past performance does not guarantee future results...

I am happy at NK, and look forward to an even greater future.
A future which I am ready and willing to negotiate long and hard for.
We have quality people and a strong demand for our product.
We need and deserve a contract which matches that.

 

Normann....why do you or anyone here believe SWA pay is not realistic?

 

Agree 100%. If it doesn't make us more money, I don't sweat it. People need to remind themselves that we are a ULCC and everything we do it based on "will this make us more money" and not "will this make our customers happier."

Also, the JBLU rates for us is a horrible idea and we would be selling ourselves short. Something about a union airlines accepting rates that were implemented at a non union airline, that helped push them to vote in a union, just doesnt sit right with me.

Union airline will accept rates based on our union peers, nothing else.